50+ Dead in Orlando Gay Nightclub Massacre

I have been under duress before and well my initial thoughts always are be brave, but not stupid. Like someone said before, i rather get shot while trying to do something about it, that dying like a coward. He wasnt a pro shooter so he definetely wasnt quick at reloadin more than likely, also having also a handgun comes with recoil, and slow reloading. Just because he was a guard doesnt mean anythig and he had no previous experience when it came down to "tactical shit"
 
Contrast these fruits to the Christina Grimmie shooting in the same town the day before.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...na-grimmie-shot-after-florida-concert-n590161
Police hailed Grimmie's brother as a hero, and said he rushed the suspect, whom they described as a white male with two loaded magazines and a large hunting knife in addition to the two handguns he was carrying.

"Almost immediately, her brother Marcus Grimmie tackled the suspect," Orlando Police Chief John Mina told reporters Saturday. "Shortly after that, the suspect killed himself."
Tell me again how nobody really takes down armed men.
 
^Good point! It just shows what one courageous MAN can do!

Or maybe I shouldn't say "man." I had a girlfriend who had been wounded when she made a grab for a robber's gun. Fortunately, it hit her arm and was not serious wound. A brave and spunky lass...sensible too, she passed me over to marry a guy with vastly more money a short time after she gave me the brush off!
 
I'll lazily ask the firearms expert for an approximation on how long it takes to shoot 100 rounds with some semblance of aiming at a crowd. I think 2-4 shots per second is possible but this had to be well over 30 seconds of drawn out terror and I have yet to hear of anyone rising to some level of heroism or action beyond fleeing to save their own hides.
 
^In regard to this, the shooter was using 30-round magazines. A major argument in favor of banning high-capacity magazines is that if a shooter is limited to 10-round magazines, his prospective victims will have more opportunities to jump him while he is reloading. This tends to overlook two things: It only takes about three seconds to eject the empty magazine and insert a new one. Moreover, a tactically aware shooter will try not to shoot his gun "dry" but keep a round chambered for such contingencies. As it stands, the shooter in the Orlando massacre would have had to have reloaded a bare minimum of three times to have effected the carnage he did.

Rate of fire would be hard to calculate. If he was just blazing wildly into the crowd, he probably could have emptied a magazine in about five or six seconds. Taking aim at individual targets would have been much longer, probably no faster than two shots per second. As I recall from reading accounts of this atrocity, he shot a number of his victims after they were down, either wounded or simply cowering on the floor.
 
Rate of fire would be hard to calculate. If he was just blazing wildly into the crowd, he probably could have emptied a magazine in about five or six seconds. Taking aim at individual targets would have been much longer, probably no faster than two shots per second. As I recall from reading accounts of this atrocity, he shot a number of his victims after they were down, either wounded or simply cowering on the floor.

Hell, I bet you could empty it quicker. I've never had anyone time my rate of fire, but it's basically as quick as you can move your finger, an AR or equivalent cycles awful quick. Is the Sig he used a blow back or a piston?
 
Thanks for the reply! I seem to recall that stunt shooters can empty a six-shot revolver in a second. The rather high kill rate leads one to believe that this was not just speed unloading.
My gist is that this was a somewhat prolonged event, as opposed to an instantaneous catastrophe.
 
Hell, I bet you could empty it quicker. I've never had anyone time my rate of fire, but it's basically as quick as you can move your finger, an AR or equivalent cycles awful quick. Is the Sig he used a blow back or a piston?

The Sig he used is a piston design. None of these rifles could use the blowback principle. What you mean is "direct gas impingement." In full-auto mode the M16 would empty a 30-round magazine in about three seconds. I don't think even the most skilled shooter could shoot more than half as fast as that, and he probably wouldn't hit much.

Thanks for the reply! I seem to recall that stunt shooters can empty a six-shot revolver in a second. The rather high kill rate leads one to believe that this was not just speed unloading.
My gist is that this was a somewhat prolonged event, as opposed to an instantaneous catastrophe.

The great Ed McGivern is supposed to have fired five shots from a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver in 2/5 of a second back in the 1930s and grouped them well at close range. However, some skepticism exists about this feat. Jerry Miculek has been the greatest revolver shot of our era, and I believe he has equalled or bettered some of McGivern's feats. There was also a policeman (a New Jersey State Trooper, as I recall) who beat a couple of McGivern's records using a Colt Python. I regret not remembering his name. He once commended me on my writing, so naturally I think of him fondly. [Just researched this matter. The man's name is Joe Walsh, and he was a deputy sheriff, not a state trooper.]

I agree that the Orlando killer would have had to take aim and shoot with a degree of deliberation to have run up the kill tally he did.
 
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The Sig he used is a piston design. None of these rifles could use the blowback principle. What you mean is "direct gas impingement." In full-auto mode the M16 would empty a 30-round magazine in about three seconds. I don't think even the most skilled shooter could shoot more than half as fast as that, and he probably wouldn't hit much.

Yes, you are of course correct in the terminology. It's obviously widely used by operators and civvys alike though, however inaccurate it may be. My greater question though was because I seemed to recall the Sig being a piston gun. I am out of the loop on anything newer, my heyday ended over a decade ago, and I don't really pay attention to this stuff anymore. I think the Sig was just coming out last time I was passing through a gun shop.

I agree on the second part.
 
The Sig he used is a piston design. None of these rifles could use the blowback principle. What you mean is "direct gas impingement." In full-auto mode the M16 would empty a 30-round magazine in about three seconds. I don't think even the most skilled shooter could shoot more than half as fast as that, and he probably wouldn't hit much.



The great Ed McGivern is supposed to have fired five shots from a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver in 2/5 of a second back in the 1930s and grouped them well at close range. However, some skepticism exists about this feat. Jerry Miculek has been the greatest revolver shot of our era, and I believe he has equalled or bettered some of McGivern's feats. There was also a policeman (a New Jersey State Trooper, as I recall) who beat a couple of McGivern's records using a Colt Python. I regret not remembering his name. He once commended me on my writing, so naturally I think of him fondly.

I agree that the Orlando killer would have had to take aim and shoot with a degree of deliberation to have run up the kill tally he did.

Yes, you are of course correct in the terminology. It's obviously widely used by operators and civvys alike though, however inaccurate it may be. My greater question though was because I seemed to recall the Sig being a piston gun. I am out of the loop on anything newer, my heyday ended over a decade ago, and I don't really pay attention to this stuff anymore. I think the Sig was just coming out last time I was passing through a gun shop.

I agree on the second part.
Sounds like you guys are about to get together to try and break Omar's record.
 
Watching the vigil on CNN. As sad as this was, I think it has lost its meaning. I bet none of these of people will care after another week.
 
http://www.wesh.com/news/assistant-...-facebook-comments-on-pulse-shooting/40109216
I wish this man had shielded his (((facebook))) postings, as he seems like a good guy to have in government.
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http://www.wesh.com/news/assistant-...-facebook-comments-on-pulse-shooting/40109216
I wish this man had shielded his (((facebook))) postings, as he seems like a good guy to have in government.
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Coudn't agree anymore. Also, the bullshit of what is happening right now with the 911 transcripts are complete and utter bullshit.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/2...ween-orlando-nightclub-gunman-and-police.html

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Published June 20, 2016
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DOJ to scrub Islam references from Mateen's call transcripts

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The Department of Justice is scrubbing references of radical Islamic beliefs from the transcripts of calls Orlando terrorist Omar Mateen made to police during his massacre, Attorney General Loretta Lynch said Sunday.

A partial transcript of the conversations between authorities and Mateen, who killed 49 and wounded 53 in the June 12 attack at a Florida gay nightclub, is set to be released on Monday. But Lynch, who appeared on numerous Sunday talk shows, said the transcripts will not include Mateen's oath of loyalty to ISIS or any other religious justification for the attack.

“What we’re not going to do is further proclaim this man’s pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda,” Lynch told NBC. “We are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance [to the Islamic State].”

The calls could confirm Mateen's motives in the wake of Facebook postings from the killer that already reveal Islamist leanings.

“I pledge my alliance to (ISIS leader) abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me,” Mateen wrote in one post during the attack. “The real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west” …“You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes..now taste the Islamic state vengeance.”

Other posts include warnings to the U.S. and Russia to stop bombing the Islamic State and a prediction that more ISIS attacks would follow Mateen's assault.

But that "radical Islam" angle is likely to be missing from Monday's release.

Critics blasted the move by the administration, which has rejected branding terrorist acts as motivated by radical Islam and has sought to paint the Orlando attack as a gun control issue.

Orlando Nightclub Shooting | Graphiq
"This is not just a simple wording issue," Ric Grenell, a Fox News contributor and former aide to UN Ambassador John Bolton told Fox and Friends Monday morning. "The fact that Loretta Lynch is somehow redacting the specific enemy that is being called out here is a PR move."

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giluiani, also on Fox and Friends Monday, said it does not help law enforcement to try to bury the motivations or allegiences of criminals and terrorists.

"Why didn't they do this with the Mafia, to spare Italian-Americans?" Giuliani asked. "Why? Because if you did, you would never make the connection [which ultimately] brought them down."

Mateen died in a hail of gunfire after police blew a hole in the side of the venue following a three-hour hostage standoff. But before his final moments came, Mateen declared allegiance to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi -- right in the midst of the slaughter.

The move to edit the transcripts of Mateen's calls harkens back to April, when French President Francois Hollande's reference to "Islamist terrorism" was left out of an official White House video during an international summit in Washington D.C. The White House later told several news outlets the dropped phrase was a "technical issue."

President Obama famously has tried not to use the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism" in his remarks, a position many Republicans have lambasted him for. Obama has said he believes that phrase gives a measure of legitimacy to terror groups.

And as investigators look past Mateen's religious convictions, Lynch said a top goal is to build a complete profile of the gunman in order to help prevent another massacre like Orlando.

“We are trying to re-create the days, the weeks, the months of this killer’s life before this attack,” Lynch said. “And we are also asking those people who had contact with him to come forward and give us that information as well.”

Mateen was the focus of two FBI investigations into suspected terrorism. However, the probes were concluded without further action, and Mateen was allowed to legally buy firearms.

Lynch said the Justice Department is “going to go back and see what changes could have been made,” regarding how the investigations were handled.

Lynch said she’s traveling to Orlando Tuesday to meet with federal investigators.

While speaking to CBS’ “Face The Nation,” Lynch said that a key goal of the probe was to determine why Mateen targeted the gay community. The victims were predominantly gay and Hispanic since it was "Latin Night" at Pulse.

Lynch, speaking to “Fox News Sunday,” declined to say whether federal authorities will charge anybody in connection with the mass murder. She also declined to comment on why the wife of the shooter has not been arrested, amid purported evidence that she either helped her husband plot the murders or suspected his intentions and did not alert authorities.

Lynch also expressed support for Texas GOP Sen. John Cornyn's amendment, which is scheduled for a vote Monday in the Senate and would allow the federal government to delay a gun sale to a suspected terrorist for as long as 72 hours. Afterward, prosecutors would have to persuade a judge to block the sale permanently.

Lynch said such an amendment would give the federal government the ability to stop a sale to somebody on the terror watch list.

Meanwhile, thousands of people packed Lake Eola Park in Florida Sunday evening for a vigil to honor the victims of the shooting. The park was filled with people holding white flowers, American flags and candles.

At the end of the gathering, people held up their candles as the name of each victim was read, creating a ring of fire around Lake Eola. They chanted "One Orlando," ''Orlando United" and "Somos Orlando," Spanish for "We are Orlando."

"That event has gotten the attention of the world," said Evania Nichols, an Orlando resident. "And, for Orlando — a city that's always been incredibly inclusive no matter your skin color, no matter your background — it's brought about a movement that I think is starting here and I really hope continues."
 
it's brought about a movement that I think is starting here and I really hope continues."

"LGBT lives matter!"

Seriously, the US become more and more a 3rd world dictator state. Why is the White House so desperate to keep the fact that there is an ISIS connection out of the media? To make anyone who mentions "radical Islam" (and Trump in particular) look bad?
Rather than take away guns the government should make it mandatory that future gun owners get a proper training before they can have their guns and be evaluated on a regular basis. If they don't meet the requirements (physically and/ or mentally) they get stripped of their guns. People who just love holding/ firing a gun can do so in a controlled shooting range.
 
Why is the White House so desperate to keep the fact that there is an ISIS connection out of the media? To make anyone who mentions "radical Islam" (and Trump in particular) look bad?
there really wasn't an ISIS connection. he was a repressed homo and tried to find cause celebrity at the end. this was more about islam as a religion that does not tolerate homosexuality than ISIS.
 
there really wasn't an ISIS connection. he was a repressed homo and tried to find cause celebrity at the end. this was more about islam as a religion that does not tolerate homosexuality than ISIS.
So that's why he shot all those gay Hispanic non-muslims??? For being so irresistably sexy compared to his wife?
I'm pretty sure this guy had no real ties with ISIS, but he did certainly pretend to be on their side. We have people that claim to have seen him at this club, maybe scoping out the location, but no real proof of this gay slander. Obama and all are actually not stupid to avoid overplaying the alleged connection, but squelching it totally is Streisand effect stupid.
Does any religion in the first world, besides those spineless Anglicans, have much tolerance for teh homosex?
 
So that's why he shot all those gay Hispanic non-muslims??? For being so irresistably sexy compared to his wife?
I'm pretty sure this guy had no real ties with ISIS, but he did certainly pretend to be on their side. We have people that claim to have seen him at this club, maybe scoping out the location, but no real proof of this gay slander. Obama and all are actually not stupid to avoid overplaying the alleged connection, but squelching it totally is Streisand effect stupid.
Does any religion in the first world, besides those spineless Anglicans, have much tolerance for teh homosex?
He was on Grinder for fucks sake. ISIS disavowed him when they found out about that.
 
Even though I don't think that ISIS is real, I like that they stand with their principles and refuse credit when there is a conflict of interest.
 
So that's why he shot all those gay Hispanic non-muslims??? For being so irresistably sexy compared to his wife?
I'm pretty sure this guy had no real ties with ISIS, but he did certainly pretend to be on their side. We have people that claim to have seen him at this club, maybe scoping out the location, but no real proof of this gay slander. Obama and all are actually not stupid to avoid overplaying the alleged connection, but squelching it totally is Streisand effect stupid.
Does any religion in the first world, besides those spineless Anglicans, have much tolerance for teh homosex?

In the first place, Anglicanism is not a "religion," it is a denomination of the Christian religion. Not all churches in the worldwide Anglican communion do embrace homosexuality, and there are many Anglican "splinter groups" that adhere to traditional Christian moral teaching on these matters. Of other Christian denominations, the United Church of Christ (the Congregationalists) are at least as gay-friendly as the Episcopal Church. Many other "mainline" Christian denominations have large blocs advocating total acceptance and equality for LGBTQ people. Of non-Christian religious bodies, the Unitarian-Universalist Church is totally accepting of LGBTQ. I believe that Reform Judaism has a very welcoming policy toward such people as well.
 
Those fags deserved it.

I'm big on brevity, especially when the intent is loathsome.

So that's why he shot all those gay Hispanic non-muslims??? For being so irresistably sexy compared to his wife?
I'm pretty sure this guy had no real ties with ISIS, but he did certainly pretend to be on their side. We have people that claim to have seen him at this club, maybe scoping out the location, but no real proof of this gay slander. Obama and all are actually not stupid to avoid overplaying the alleged connection, but squelching it totally is Streisand effect stupid.
Does any religion in the first world, besides those spineless Anglicans, have much tolerance for teh homosex?

There are denominations of Christianity that cater to gays.
 
I gotta know what the fuck that is. It's literally killing me. Does ISIS = the tooth fairy?
He is probably referring to the fact that many people see ISIS as a side pet of the US government and that's why nothing has really been done about it in Syria, Iraq, Libya, and so forth. It is strange that the most battle hardened armed forces in the history of mankind can't defeat a bunch of horse riders or in this case goatfuckers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rian-warzone-risking-lives-sworn-enemies.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881 and keep on going.
 
Okay, COE is the main "we love faggotry" denomination, and some other fringe Protties play ball while commie hecklers are trying to destabilize all religions. Needless to say, these are illegitimate abominations.

Al Queda was always suspected of being about 50 people, many having close ties to the US government. They were immediately replaced by this dark horse upstart that has magic money, and seems to largely attack moderate Muslims. I've heard their headquarters is conveniently close to (((our greatest ally))), towards whom they are oddly peaceful.
It's Emanuel Goldstein, yo.
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Have any commentators remarked on the fact that bisexuality is very common and popular among Afghan males...or so I have heard for many years?
 
Have any commentators remarked on the fact that bisexuality is very common and popular among Afghan males...or so I have heard for many years?
No, I don't thinks adult males are getting together like that.
I mean there is Bacha bazi, but that's with boys! Note that the Taliban cleaned that up, only to have US "contractors" come in and start paying for it a la the Kunduz Dyna problem.
 

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