Disagreeable Menswear Post Of The Day

Darth Bane said:
Yeah, I'd say there is a definite pattern. It's traceable to certain shills and former shills on SF like Dieworkwear and the like.

The main issue is that so much of the menswear sphere is caught up in these bloggers, who have no compunctions about dealing trash if it pays and whose sense of self-worth, along with that of their readers, is bound up in being able to afford full price, which means they never disclose their actual business arrangements - it's always "my friend X tailor" or "my latest commission." Meanwhile, you find out that they don't even wear tailoring regularly and think "dressing to get dinner" is one of the only outlets left for suits (I wish I were making that up).

Ultimately, there's no proof. You have a group of hive-mind bloggers/posters with conflicts of interest (so many on SF sell clothes) who trash-talk the greats, but there is also no real word from one of Poole's (example) customers to confirm. Sure, you'll get someone claiming that Poole messed up their suit, but they never show any proof because it's entirely hearsay. And we don't know how insane of a customer that igent was, either.

As for Lobb, I actually have a few pairs and can categorically state that they are better-made than many of the Nicholas Templeman examples I've seen. Perhaps he should have stayed in the workshop a bit longer instead of moving to Canada to make a living off internet hype.
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I can see what you're getting at here. I've never particularly liked dww as a person because of his tendency to have whiplash passive aggression when he so much as detects things aren't going his way so I definitely wouldn't put it past him to slander brands and people who rub him the wrong way...He's done more than that for a lot less.

On the topic of bigger menswear bloggers, I also agree that there's a massive conflict of interest between the reader and the blogger on multiple fronts. The most egregious, for me, is the gap in knowledge and perceived authority. Simon doesn't really demonstrate good knowledge of suiting because he can scarcely identify his own anatomically rooted suiting issues vis-a-vis his many commissions even in his own breakdown articles. He openly admitted that he doesn't wear most of his bespoke at all and sells the ones he can't make an article out of anymore on marrkt. Which makes it so obvious PS is not on the side of the menswear enthusiast but on the side of his sponsors... the crompton fan club always fails to take this into account though. On top of that, His attempts at casual outfits are middling at best, and you'd get better advice from some random tiktoker who actually knows how to wear casual over Crompton.

Ultimately, this just means that PS isn't a good place to get advice... It just happens to be the most well known. His site is best used as a photo book rather than a style resource. Most pictures in PS are more exercises in photography, color blocking, and posing for menswear than anything else.

I legitimately think menswear internet is a genuinely poor way to learn to dress well. Menswear internet is now too sanitized due to the blogger-advertisers fearing that critiques may lead their buyer-readers to stop believing that money 100% buys style. Which is definitely also the cause of so many inexperienced bespoke makers marketing themselves to equally inexperienced money bags on SF and PS who can't tell apart a bespoke dud from a bespoke win.
 
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$10 for advice from menswear guru and sartorial demigod Mitchell Moss.
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ghost said:
I assume that you are referring to the blue/gray and white striped shirt. If so, I believe that was a test shirt to check for comfort and shrinkage. The salmon colored shirt was made specifically to be loose and billowy. That was TDang's goal. He did not design it with the intention to wear it with tailored jackets. He stated that it was for hot humid climates and more relaxed outfits.
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He'd ironically have a much better shot at loose billowy shirts that fit like that off-the-rack from proper oversized shirt designers. Those usually have the proportions of, say, a size 40 rtw on the collar, sleeves, shoulders, and the upper chest area, but then they start to flare and billow out once you hit the lower chest area (some 3 to 5 inches more on the usual chest area measurement). Then in order to allow the shirt to have options in how you tuck it in...one would opt for a very, very lengthened curved hem with a side seam that's been diagonally offset towards the front the further the seam goes along to the hem so that when the shirt is tucked in there is less fabric to muffin and bunch up front ...while the larger proportion of the fabric that billows out is going to be hidden at the back. It's a very specific look that certain subgenres of fashion favour due to the ability to signal one's slimness without looking like a stick man. The best designed ones will make the oversized shirt have a slight muffin up front that emphasizes the slimness of the wearer while being billowy and roomy still (both with and without a jacket)...provided they have trousers that support an equally small waist.

His shirts are just a horribly bad attempt at making an oversized shirt...which is a form factor more heavily reliant on good design to achieve the desired result...meaning he could make these 3...5...10 sets over and still achieve sub par results because both parties have little experience making "oversized bespoke"...whatever this hell means.

Could have just stuck with the usual measurements + 2-3 cm on the chest area...flared out the shirt more once it was below the natural waist to accomodate for a bigger gut, and to help the shirt sit snugly on his behind so it doesn't ride up as much over the course of the day to keep a clean tuck in and reduce overall fuss. This is all assuming his trouser seat, and hip size is roomy enough not to push the shirt upwards while he moves around.
 
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Genki26 said:
He'd ironically have a much better shot at loose billowy shirts that fit like that off-the-rack from proper oversized shirt designers. Those usually have the proportions of, say, a size 40 rtw on the collar, sleeves, shoulders, and the upper chest area, but then they start to flare and billow out once you hit the lower chest area (some 3 to 5 inches more on the usual chest area measurement). Then in order to allow the shirt to have options in how you tuck it in...one would opt for a very, very lengthened curved hem with a side seam that's been diagonally offset towards the front the further the seam goes along to the hem so that when the shirt is tucked in there is less fabric to muffin and bunch up front ...while the larger proportion of the fabric that billows out is going to be hidden at the back. It's a very specific look that certain subgenres of fashion favour due to the ability to signal one's slimness without looking like a stick man. The best designed ones will make the oversized shirt have a slight muffin up front that emphasizes the slimness of the wearer while being billowy and roomy still (both with and without a jacket)...provided they have trousers that support an equally small waist.

His shirts are just a horribly bad attempt at making an oversized shirt...which is a form factor more heavily reliant on good design to achieve the desired result...meaning he could make these 3...5...10 sets over and still achieve sub par results because both parties have little experience making "oversized bespoke"...whatever this hell means.

Could have just stuck with the usual measurements + 2-3 cm on the chest area...flared out the shirt more once it was below the natural waist to accomodate for a bigger gut, and to help the shirt sit snugly on his behind so it doesn't ride up as much over the course of the day to keep a clean tuck in and reduce overall fuss. This is all assuming his trouser seat, and hip size is roomy enough not to push the shirt upwards while he moves around.
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Have you seen how tdang is built? I would be shocked if you could name a rtw brand that would fit him the way that you suggest.
 
ghost said:
Have you seen how tdang is built? I would be shocked if you could name a rtw brand that would fit him the way that you suggest.
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Yes, I have. He's an absolute nightmare to make a suit for but a forward rolled shoulder to that degree doesn't change your shoulder measurement. It isn't nearly as big of a concern when it comes to shirting. A shirt, moreso if oversized, isn't trying to shape your body nearly as much as a sport coat or suit jacket will. It just needs to rest on it relatively cleanly. I don't see why you're arguing about his body type where it's irrelevant

P. S. I'm not trying to make him look good in a shirt (that's impossible). I'm just trying within the bounds of his body type to get a shirt that "fits alright" because that's the best he's gonna get with his baseline body and specifications for it to be a roomy shirt for humid climates.
 
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Genki26 said:
Yes, I have. He's an absolute nightmare to make a suit for but a forward rolled shoulder to that degree doesn't change your shoulder measurement. It isn't nearly as big of a concern when it comes to shirting. A shirt, moreso if oversized, isn't trying to shape your body nearly as much as a sport coat or suit jacket will. It just needs to rest on it relatively cleanly. I don't see why you're arguing about his body type where it's irrelevant

P. S. I'm not trying to make him look good in a shirt (that's impossible). I'm just trying within the bounds of his body type to get a shirt that "fits alright" because that's the best he's gonna get with his baseline body and specifications for it to be a roomy shirt for humid climates.
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You clearly have not seen the individual in question. He has NO gut. His proportions are way outside of the standard male physique.
 
Genki26 said:
I can see what you're getting at here. I've never particularly liked dww as a person because of his tendency to have whiplash passive aggression when he so much as detects things aren't going his way so I definitely wouldn't put it past him to slander brands and people who rub him the wrong way...He's done more than that for a lot less.

On the topic of bigger menswear bloggers, I also agree that there's a massive conflict of interest between the reader and the blogger on multiple fronts. The most egregious, for me, is the gap in knowledge and perceived authority. Simon doesn't really demonstrate good knowledge of suiting because he can scarcely identify his own anatomically rooted suiting issues vis-a-vis his many commissions even in his own breakdown articles. He openly admitted that he doesn't wear most of his bespoke at all and sells the ones he can't make an article out of anymore on marrkt. Which makes it so obvious PS is not on the side of the menswear enthusiast but on the side of his sponsors... the crompton fan club always fails to take this into account though. On top of that, His attempts at casual outfits are middling at best, and you'd get better advice from some random tiktoker who actually knows how to wear casual over Crompton.

Ultimately, this just means that PS isn't a good place to get advice... It just happens to be the most well known. His site is best used as a photo book rather than a style resource. Most pictures in PS are more exercises in photography, color blocking, and posing for menswear than anything else.

I legitimately think menswear internet is a genuinely poor way to learn to dress well. Menswear internet is now too sanitized due to the blogger-advertisers fearing that critiques may lead their buyer-readers to stop believing that money 100% buys style. Which is definitely also the cause of so many inexperienced bespoke makers marketing themselves to equally inexperienced money bags on SF and PS who can't tell apart a bespoke dud from a bespoke win.
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if bigger firms like Poole, Huntsman, Lobb, and the like have simply started telling the bloggers to take a hike these days, instead of throwing away perfectly good cloth and canvas on their dubious form of advertising. It would explain why there's now a chorus of "small makers! small makers!" on menswear forums. Most of them never bought good bespoke in the first place, and once their blogger influencers changed course, they followed along.

DWW is particularly egregious because he has no credentials. He's a nearly-50 year old Asian guy who refuses to post pictures of himself, is overweight, and by his own admission rarely wears tailoring at all (thus proving that he is confused about his own style). Some say that they agree with his takes, rather than his tactics. Those people should read the archived "Suitable Wardrobe" blog posts sometime. DWW thinks that they're gone, but you can easily access the entire blog on the Wayback machine. If you compare his forum posts to that blog, you'll find that he has plagiarized and lifted his opinions from that stupid website for the past decade, with hardly any new additions. His single claim to fame is Twitter, and only because he shilled his politics harder than his clothing opinions. Hilariously, that insistence on seeing politics in everything is also the reason why he currently finds classic men's clothing distasteful to wear on himself. He left SF not because he transcended menswear, but because everyone else was getting tired of hearing his crap: https://www.styleforum.net/threads/gen-z-zoomers-and-classic-menswear.701729/page-14#post-11067042

I agree about PS. Sometimes there are good pictures posted, but ultimately I never really look at the website. I certainly never purchase anything as a result of reading about it on PS, so I can only imagine that he gets his commissions because of visual exposure for the brands.

The internet is generally a bad place to learn because too many half-truths are thrown around and hivemind mentality always takes over at some point. Some things you can only know through having been brought up in that milieu. People will talk about Sulka ties, for example, but how many of them know anything of a great Sulka from the 50s/40s or earlier, or had fathers who wore them? Bloggers talk about last-makers and cutters as if they were the only craftsmen who mattered, but they know nothing of how a tailor's sewing and making style can alter the proportions of a jacket, or why Lobb never does fitting shoes (it's because the making/attachment of the uppers and soles changes the fit of the shoe, too, dumbasses). They are capable of wearing grey tweed jackets to a cocktail lounge and black tie to a bistro. They'll claim that stripes are only for business and oxford shoes can only be worn with suits. In short, they fake it but never quite make it.
 
Does DWW attend those SF meet ups, shoe circles etc?
Does he attend Pitti?
I don’t believe his name is Derek Guy but it’s still some feat to have such a public profile yet there doesn’t seem to be any pics or bios about him anywhere on the internet. He could be a complete AI cypher for all we know.
(But I have to confess I’d be slightly amused if he really is a fattie!😃)
 
Great White Snark said:
Does DWW attend those SF meet ups, shoe circles etc?
Does he attend Pitti?
I don’t believe his name is Derek Guy but it’s still some feat to have such a public profile yet there doesn’t seem to be any pics or bios about him anywhere on the internet. He could be a complete AI cypher for all we know.
(But I have to confess I’d be slightly amused if he really is a fattie!😃)
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I wouldn't know if he does, as you couldn't pay me enough to go to those things. He's very secretive about his appearance, and even his clothing items, for someone who claims to be an authority. The fact that people listen to him despite this is evidence of the mass ignorance of our era.

He personally spoke about his belly and/or lack of decent physique on an old SF post somewhere. I'd have to find it again, but it's no rumour.
 
Darth Bane said:
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if bigger firms like Poole, Huntsman, Lobb, and the like have simply started telling the bloggers to take a hike these days, instead of throwing away perfectly good cloth and canvas on their dubious form of advertising. It would explain why there's now a chorus of "small makers! small makers!" on menswear forums. Most of them never bought good bespoke in the first place, and once their blogger influencers changed course, they followed along.

DWW is particularly egregious because he has no credentials. He's a nearly-50 year old Asian guy who refuses to post pictures of himself, is overweight, and by his own admission rarely wears tailoring at all (thus proving that he is confused about his own style). Some say that they agree with his takes, rather than his tactics. Those people should read the archived "Suitable Wardrobe" blog posts sometime. DWW thinks that they're gone, but you can easily access the entire blog on the Wayback machine. If you compare his forum posts to that blog, you'll find that he has plagiarized and lifted his opinions from that stupid website for the past decade, with hardly any new additions. His single claim to fame is Twitter, and only because he shilled his politics harder than his clothing opinions. Hilariously, that insistence on seeing politics in everything is also the reason why he currently finds classic men's clothing distasteful to wear on himself. He left SF not because he transcended menswear, but because everyone else was getting tired of hearing his crap: https://www.styleforum.net/threads/gen-z-zoomers-and-classic-menswear.701729/page-14#post-11067042

I agree about PS. Sometimes there are good pictures posted, but ultimately I never really look at the website. I certainly never purchase anything as a result of reading about it on PS, so I can only imagine that he gets his commissions because of visual exposure for the brands.

The internet is generally a bad place to learn because too many half-truths are thrown around and hivemind mentality always takes over at some point. Some things you can only know through having been brought up in that milieu. People will talk about Sulka ties, for example, but how many of them know anything of a great Sulka from the 50s/40s or earlier, or had fathers who wore them? Bloggers talk about last-makers and cutters as if they were the only craftsmen who mattered, but they know nothing of how a tailor's sewing and making style can alter the proportions of a jacket, or why Lobb never does fitting shoes (it's because the making/attachment of the uppers and soles changes the fit of the shoe, too, dumbasses). They are capable of wearing grey tweed jackets to a cocktail lounge and black tie to a bistro. They'll claim that stripes are only for business and oxford shoes can only be worn with suits. In short, they fake it but never quite make it.
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Good bespoke is an iterative process because even the top tailors get things wrong. I've consistently been working with my tailor for over 10 years and things are getting really good....
 
jba803 said:
Good bespoke is an iterative process because even the top tailors get things wrong. I've consistently been working with my tailor for over 10 years and things are getting really good....
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Is that you Foo?
Or am I mixing up ten years with having to do ten commissions before your tailor gets it right?
 
Imagine someone saying the same about tattoo artists - it takes 10+ before they start dialing in what you like and what works for your body
 
Great White Snark said:
Is that you Foo?
Or am I mixing up ten years with having to do ten commissions before your tailor gets it right?
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I've plateaued at 7, things started to sing around the 3rd order.

Can't afford my tailor on annual basis so I send them money every year until my balance is paid off for a jacket and pant commission.
 
jba803 said:
Can't afford my tailor on annual basis so I send them money every year until my balance is paid off for a jacket and pant commission.
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That's the proper way. Tailors used to grant long credit to good clients, but since they don't anymore they should at least indulge a more sensible financing model.

In the old days, even asking for payment was avoided. Haberdashers were no exception: most of Sulka's customers had charge accounts (no interest), even the ones who could afford immediate purchase. It was the accepted practice.
 
Does Verrihappy post at all? I haven’t seen any of his outfits, which by the same logic, is a bit odd for someone who seems to have quite an opinion.

Great White Snark said:
Does DWW attend those SF meet ups, shoe circles etc?
Does he attend Pitti?
I don’t believe his name is Derek Guy but it’s still some feat to have such a public profile yet there doesn’t seem to be any pics or bios about him anywhere on the internet. He could be a complete AI cypher for all we know.
(But I have to confess I’d be slightly amused if he really is a fattie!😃)
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Sammy Ambrose said:
I have an idea. You post some pics of yourself wearing and posing as Crompers is so we can contrast your good with his ungood.
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You asked for it, the owner of Carlo Riva, his daughter and a humild shirt maker trained in Naples of 1,90 of pure aryanness.

The shirt is Carlo Riva, the wrinkles on the shirt are due to being driving hours with the belt o, not due to bad fitting.

IWC Portuguieser rules. I miss it.

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To critique an ugly Ferrari, do you need to own several?

To critique a bad film, do you need to be director?

And so on

( now some post again and again the over and over pics with photoshop of the dungeon, I also miss those.)
 
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