Has Vass Lost Its Soul

walker said:
this particular pair, which was from an upscale line, wasn't even gyw and had a fake welt. disgusting. € 550 retail - a piece of junk.

ps: tomorrow, we should dig into my pet peeve the inevitable HAF sole. what do you think?
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I am always up for the HAF sole/no soul debate
 
a little inanity for my night cap

http://www.styleforum.net/t/130044/the-ultimate-vass-porn-thread/11610#post_7218242
thruth said:
You know what? I saw that and had started writing a tongue pad rant but suddenly thought "why"'and deleted
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nice gag reflex, lol

fwiw, once I asked this guy about the visibly poor fit of a pair of shoes. his reply: why? this my most comfortable pair of shoes. context: he is a doctor, so he should roughly have an idea of his feet mechanics. to cut him a slack. the majority of shoes he is presenting seem to fit him well. go figure.
 
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I hope it is understandable that this thread is not meant to rain on the parade of Vass or any other AH maker. It's a philosophical approach.

it shares the same sentiments, when people e.g. in the AE thread on sf rave about discontinued models or if Alden would discontinue their most popular Indy boot make up.
 
shifting everywhere.

Maciej Kielman: source: blue loafers blog

We have been said to be an Austro-Hungarian type of shoemaker until mid 90’s. Kielman shoes were rather heavy, made on thick soles. Then the majority of our customers came from the English speaking countries so our shoes started to be longer and smoother. Lasts became lighter and its proportions changed a little bit. We still have a tendency to make our lasts rather sleek but the latest feedback suggests that we should not make them any lighter – we stick to that now. Many people say that our speciality is the wholecut model, especially the one with no stitching at all – made of one piece of leather.

not sure what he wants to prove with this statement:

I think that the thing which differences us from other shoemakers is the number of ways we can attach the sole to the upper. You can basically choose every possible way and we will do that.
 
walker said:
shifting everywhere.

Maciej Kielman: source: blue loafers blog

We have been said to be an Austro-Hungarian type of shoemaker until mid 90’s. Kielman shoes were rather heavy, made on thick soles. Then the majority of our customers came from the English speaking countries so our shoes started to be longer and smoother. Lasts became lighter and its proportions changed a little bit. We still have a tendency to make our lasts rather sleek but the latest feedback suggests that we should not make them any lighter – we stick to that now. Many people say that our speciality is the wholecut model, especially the one with no stitching at all – made of one piece of leather.

not sure what he wants to prove with this statement:

I think that the thing which differences us from other shoemakers is the number of ways we can attach the sole to the upper. You can basically choose every possible way and we will do that.
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Nice. I wonder if he will glue a rubber sole?
 
a company, which never referred themselves to be part of the AH "family" is SC.

source: saintcrispins.com
Saint Crispin’s does not follow the Viennese shoemaker tradition exclusively but propagates a style which is understood in Anglo-Saxon regions as well as the Mediterranean, German-speaking areas.
______________________________________________

I would describe their strategy as a slalom on the slopes of igentism.
 
thruth said:
So it's not my eyes and that is some weird stitching around the sides and from of the toes and vamp?
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no, your eyes are okay.

by Vass' standard these are not even seconds and shouldn't have passed QC. I dunno how a person like roger, who is very careful about his knives can overlook these obvious and visible irregularities.

it feeds my assumption, that Vass can sell their "seconds" via channels like e.g. Ascot, as their clientele buys by the looks and not the standards of traditional shoemaking, hence my complaints about e.g. big welts, wonky stitching, bad cropping, unbalanced sole - heel ratio(HAF sole). It's paying the price of selling more shoes, imo.

at the end of the day roger is one of the busiest and most active shills on sf these days. nevermind.

edit: he received them from the proxy Notch. guy, who didn't accept returns, before he cracked under pressure.
 
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walker said:
no, your eyes are okay.

by Vass' standard these are not even seconds and shouldn't have passed QC. I dunno how a person like roger, who is very careful about his knives can overlook these obvious and visible irregularities.

it feeds my assumption, that Vass can sell their "seconds" via channels like e.g. Ascot, as their clientele buys by the looks and not the standards of traditional shoemaking, hence my complaints about e.g. big welts, wonky stitching, bad cropping, unbalanced sole - heel ratio(HAF sole). It's paying the price of selling more shoes, imo.

at the end of the day roger is one of the busiest and most active shills on sf these days. nevermind.
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so is he avoiding pointing out the wonky stitching? he has to have noticed it. and why has nobody else on the thread pointed it out?
 
also, is this a more recent development in Vass quality due to the increased productivity?
 
thruth said:
so is he avoiding pointing out the wonky stitching? he has to have noticed it. and why has nobody else on the thread pointed it out?
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my dear friend, I cannot make a psychogramm of roger. I have to admit, that his motivation is beyond my imagination. I'm not sure he noticed it as he falls in the category of buyers by the look. tbh, what else could he do, when he only passed a quick shallow course on shoes. buying shoes is not understanding the skills, which goes into the making.

a possible answer, why no one else pointed it out, same lack of knowledge and untrained eyes plus you can sell it as the charme of handstitching, which is a pure igentism.
 
thruth said:
also, is this a more recent development in Vass quality due to the increased productivity?
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this cannot be said for sure. its certainly recent and started with their transformation from stock to more MTO orders. I have a theory that their craftsmen struggle with the changes/shifting to a plethora of new styles and there is no time to get trained on the new challenges. what has been finished is already sold and must go out. it's a gamble.
 
walker said:
this cannot be said for sure. I have a theory that their craftsmen struggle with the changes/shifting to a plethora of new styles and there is no time to get trained on the new challenges. what has been finished is already sold and must go out. it's a gamble.
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Interesting. I would think that quality shoemaking would transition from one shoe style to another. Why do you think a few simple design changes would throw a wrench into the whole operation?
 
Rambo said:
Interesting. I would think that quality shoemaking would transition from one shoe style to another. Why do you think a few simple design changes would throw a wrench into the whole operation?
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because they are not simple.
 
walker said:
same goes for the question, anyway.

let's stick to this adage for now: an old tree cannot be relocated.
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I suppose I'll have to settle.

Ok, so how do you think Vass fixes this? Hire some young bucks to work the lines? Stop offering the more Italian-style shoes?
 
Rambo said:
I suppose I'll have to settle.

Ok, so how do you think Vass fixes this? Hire some young bucks to work the lines? Stop offering the more Italian-style shoes?
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i don't think they can stop the pandering to the MTO crowd and their wonderful designs. it has become their bread and butter
 
thruth said:
i don't think they can stop the pandering to the MTO crowd and their wonderful designs. it has become their bread and butter
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Right. So given that Walker thinks they're bending under the pressure, where do they go from here to get back their sterling reputation?
 
Rambo said:
Ok, so how do you think Vass fixes this? Hire some young bucks to work the lines? Stop offering the more Italian-style shoes?
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ad hoc: there's a golden rule in shoemaking: it takes ten years to be good and twenty until this is recognized.
 
Rambo said:
Right. So given that Walker thinks they're bending under the pressure, where do they go from here to get back their sterling reputation?
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a quick reminder: this is a philosophical discussion to begin with... ...and so is my personal approach to the whole thing.

I try to explain with a watch analogy: omega versus rolex. speedmaster versus daytona.

while there are a plethora of styles for the speedmaster, the daytona underwent just minor changes, if ever.
 
Hmmm. I can easily find counter-examples of this, but I tend to think that this 'shedding your soul' is a common and predictable phenomenon. The way I see it, business are started by two types of entrepreneurs:

1. People who love the business activity
B. People who see the activity as a means to make a living.

In either case they will get good at some function in the business (product or marketing, respectively) and with a little luck they make some money. Growth beckons as the word gets out (and since you're starting at zero anyway, where else does one go from there), and the call to grow is irresistable for most because it proves out the business activity. If you make a really good shoe and people are knocking down your door to buy it, that validates the skill of the shoemaker (or marketer) and validation is a very hard thing to turn away from. Once you develop the broader audience, they want the broader variety, and it takes tremendous discipline to stick with your initial vision.
 
this makes all sense to me. I have a beef with people who pretend to know but don't. thats all...
 
I'm certainly not spoiled or overly nitpicking. this is too obvious, imo
vass.webp
 
So to get back to the original topic, if one presumes that Vass has their signature style that doesn't sell enough to pay the bills, what should they do?
Just produce other styles under a different name? Create disincentives to limit the quantity of orders for style they prefer not to make?
 
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