Has Vass Lost Its Soul

walker said:
what an asshole ... glad he stopped posting.

#13638 - http://www.styleforum.net/t/130044/the-ultimate-vass-footwear-porn-thread/13635#post_7628990

chogall: That's a bad handmade. Handmade isnt always perfect. And inseaming of the first pair in the day will be better than the last pair as hands are still fresh.
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+1. Do they sell at cheaper prices the shoes manufactured in the evening?
Based on that picture ow do I know if a shoe is handwelted or goodyear made? The two of you seem to differ?
 
robertito said:
+1. Do they sell at cheaper prices the shoes manufactured in the evening?
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hopefully.

robertito said:
Based on that picture how do I know if a shoe is handwelted or goodyear made?
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the gap between the stitches. this is a pretty clear indicator.

actually I handled a shoe with exactly the same issue recently. a pair of Dinkelackers, which are also sold under the handwelted label. said pair was inspected by a master shoemaker to support the complaint. a bad day for hungarian shoemakers pride.

robertito said:
The two of you seem to differ?
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chogall is well known for his sometimes "strange" observations. I gave up on this long ago.
 
So is it a machine-made Vass or just a poor hand-sewn job?

Whatever it is, how does that leave the shop?
 
thanks for chiming in.well, what we see here is probably a confirmation of things I heard already several years ago.

Thruth said:
So is it a machine-made Vass or just a poor hand-sewn job?
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of course "we" cannot be sure. as I said above it looks exactly like a pair of Dinkelackers which had a gemming failure.

but what is much more suspicious. Frommer is not going full DW mode. none of the drum beaters chimed in. C'mon Namor comments on everything. now he is quiet. very strange. let's see if the rats will leave the sinking ship ... ... soon.

Frommer:
They're hand welted aren't they?

#13662 - http://www.styleforum.net/t/130044/the-ultimate-vass-footwear-porn-thread/13650#post_7632369

ps: just to be sure I pm'ed the owner of the Vass number to look for serious advice. he was very thankful indeed.

Thruth said:
Whatever it is, how does that leave the shop?
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this is the big question mark, but whatever? actually handwelting is a USP to the brand.

ps: they even revitalized the fucked up proxy Notch. jeeezus.
 
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frommer will never say anything bad against a shoe brand. it is part of his corporatism mentality
 
robertito said:
frommer will never say anything bad against a shoe brand. it is part of his corporatism mentality
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not sure about this, anyway. frommer is "dubiously honoured" and Vass is a love child plus its sold through their favorite affiliate - no man walks alone. hello greg. don't get me wrong. I still think that Vass makes nice shoes but I suspect they are paying the price for a fast growth. understandable?
 
I am not sure of the relationship Frommer- NMWA.The only thing I say is that Frommer is always very careful and never says anything bad about any particular shoe brand. We all know he hates all goodyear shoes.

Whether Vass is handwelted or not I can't say and how he feels about Vass I dont know either.

btw, In the end I didnt buy the Vass from the GMTO from the Spanish Forum To be honest I am not sold in the Budapester or wiener lasts and I didnt want to buy without trying. Instead I bought a pair of Edward Green on the 82 last. I know that this one works for me..
 
robertito said:
frommer will never say anything bad against a shoe brand. it is part of his corporatism mentality
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I don't think that's quite true, as DWFII waged quite a campaign two or three years back against SF's love for English brands such as Edward Green, as he argued that paying that much money for Goodyear-welted that used gemming in their construction was a waste as they could suffer gemming failure. He was largely condemned as an old fuddy-duddy who was overly-concerned about something that wasn't particularly important.
 
Journeyman said:
I don't think that's quite true, as DWFII waged quite a campaign two or three years back against SF's love for English brands such as Edward Green, as he argued that paying that much money for Goodyear-welted that used gemming in their construction was a waste as they could suffer gemming failure. He was largely condemned as an old fuddy-duddy who was overly-concerned about something that wasn't particularly important.
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see my above post. His Crusade (do I sound like Sarton) is against goodyear shoes (all English) not against an specific shoe brand. I dont remembe ever saying Edward Green (or _________ insert name here )is bad.
 
robertito said:
see my above post. His Crusade (do I sound like Sarton) is against goodyear shoes (all English) not against an specific shoe brand. I dont remembe ever saying Edward Green (or _________ insert name here )is bad.
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fwiw, this is not about frommer and yes he did. I'm just too lazy to look it up.

let's get back to Vass and their obvious problems.
 
walker said:
not sure about this, anyway. frommer is "dubiously honoured" and Vass is a love child plus its sold through their favorite affiliate - no man walks alone. hello greg. don't get me wrong. I still think that Vass makes nice shoes but I suspect they are paying the price for a fast growth. understandable?
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It would seem that if they have gone to machine welting that this is an early failure
 
Thruth said:
It would seem that if they have gone to machine welting that this is an early failure
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the question remains: why did they do it? is it greed?

it is disgusting ... I'll probably never forget the sad face of the person who told me ...
 
I guess it is cheaper in the long run to pay a man to run a machine than to sew?

To be honest does this not knock Vass down a notch? Their niche in the hierarchy was handsewn MTO not machine welted at a pricepoint far below EG/JL etc

The MTO aspect still sets them apart but erodes part of the gap between them and say Carmina? Or Bonafe for that matter who will still hand welt a shoe for you
 
Thruth said:
I guess it is cheaper in the long run to pay a man to run a machine than to sew?
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yep, true dat. Its a sad story nevertheless.

Thruth said:
To be honest does this not knock Vass down a notch? Their niche in the hierarchy was handsewn MTO not machine welted at a pricepoint far below EG/JL etc.
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well, the beans are spilled and there is no way back. this cannot be fixed easily. of course it knocks them down, imo. for me the worst part is the dishonesty.

the niche could still be there if they can recalibrate things. understood. budapest is a booming city for shoemakers atm and there is quite a competition.

certainly, EG and JL are overpriced for what they are, imo.

Thruth said:
The MTO aspect still sets them apart but erodes part of the gap between them and say Carmina? Or Bonafe for that matter who will still hand welt a shoe for you
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Vass is a good example what can happen when the manager is not a shoemaker but a greedy business man. you just should be clear about your concept.
 
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I'm sorry if I sound dim, but can somebody (Walker, perhaps?) explain how we know that the above shoe is not hand-welted?

Is it because of the size/length/spacing of the stitches that can be seen, or is it because, if the shoe was hand-welted, we shouldn't be able to see the stitches, or is it because of something else?

I know that the above picture doesn't look good - the shoe shouldn't be like that - but I don't understand why what we can see means that the shoe is probably Goodyear-welted rather than hand-welted.
 
Journeyman said:
I'm sorry if I sound dim, but can somebody (Walker, perhaps?) explain how we know that the above shoe is not hand-welted?

Is it because of the size/length/spacing of the stitches that can be seen, or is it because, if the shoe was hand-welted, we shouldn't be able to see the stitches, or is it because of something else?

I know that the above picture doesn't look good - the shoe shouldn't be like that - but I don't understand why what we can see means that the shoe is probably Goodyear-welted rather than hand-welted.
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can't tell for certain that the shoe is absolutely not hand-welted. however, the failure is indicative of a failure in GYW shoes: gemming failure. So that is the first suspicious bit. as you surmise, the spacing of the stitches is suspicious (always be suspicious of Stitches, but i digress) and looks like that of a GYW shoe. the GYW machine stitching of the welt mimics a hand stitched welt.

hand-welting attaches directly to the insole, while GYW sews the welt to a canvas piece glued to the insole

plus we know Vass has acquired GYW machinery.

so putting all the bits together suggests machine welted.

still equivocal evidence
 
Thruth said:
can't tell for certain that the shoe is absolutely not hand-welted. however, the failure is indicative of a failure in GYW shoes: gemming failure. So that is the first suspicious bit. as you surmise, the spacing of the stitches is suspicious (always be suspicious of Stitches, but i digress) and looks like that of a GYW shoe. the GYW machine stitching of the welt mimics a hand stitched welt.

hand-welting attaches directly to the insole, while GYW sews the welt to a canvas piece glued to the insole

plus we know Vass has acquired GYW machinery.

so putting all the bits together suggests machine welted.

still equivocal evidence
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Holy shit, "always be suspicious of stitches" sounds like a fantastic forum slogan
 
thank you for taking your time and sheding some light on this unpleasant situation.

understood, nobody wants to be devils advocate in this case. as a matter of fact. the thread itself was prosperous until this sad incident. none of the regulars e.g. Namor, Frank Copperwood, Roger P. was posting right after or on the topic. actually these clowns are not capable, imo, and the real experts only provided very vague statements. of course, its understandable that it is a very disappointing thing for all parties involved. after all Vass has to bite into the sour grapes and offer an official statement, imo.

ps: the clownish attempt of dddres didn't help the case. this can be taken for sure.

Thruth said:
can't tell for certain that the shoe is absolutely not hand-welted. however, the failure is indicative of a failure in GYW shoes: gemming failure. So that is the first suspicious bit. as you surmise, the spacing of the stitches is suspicious (always be suspicious of Stitches, but i digress) and looks like that of a GYW shoe. the GYW machine stitching of the welt mimics a hand stitched welt.

hand-welting attaches directly to the insole, while GYW sews the welt to a canvas piece glued to the insole

plus we know Vass has acquired GYW machinery.

so putting all the bits together suggests machine welted.

still equivocal evidence
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None of them wants to be the first to say the golden goose may have now be a regular chicken.

If Vass is doing GYW, they will still be makers of fine shoes. Not disclosing this fact to consumers is another story all together
 
actually, I have written off the brand long ago. unfortunately, the guys at play more or less ruined it with a fingersnip.

Thruth said:
None of them wants to be the first to say the golden goose may have now be a regular chicken.
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after all those clowns can be proud to be the grave diggers. the quality of the construction was never a real concern among the igents, imo.

Thruth said:
If Vass is doing GYW, they will still be makers of fine shoes. Not disclosing this fact to consumers is another story all together
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certainly, there's no need to banish them. It's just sad ...

Personally I would wish that we see a renaissance of small workshops succeeding.
 
Well Shoegheyzing is always digging up unknown brands to exploit. Ed Morel too.
 
walker said:
Ed is one of the most unprofessional guys, I've ever "met" querbeet. really disgusting.
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Really? That's surprising. He's always struck me as someone who could get down to business when the time came. You mind sharing what brought you to that opinion?
 
Rambo said:
Really? That's surprising. He's always struck me as someone who could get down to business when the time came. You mind sharing what brought you to that opinion?
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surprising? obviously, you never dealt with him. actually, he approached me to give him support to get new shoe brands into his portfolio. his behaviour in the process was lacking of basic manners. I had to quit ...
 
walker said:
surprising? obviously, you never dealt with him. actually, he approached me to give him support to get new shoe brands into his portfolio. his behaviour in the process was lacking of basic manners. I had to quit ...
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Hmmmm... Is there a picture of a pot and a kettle around here somewhere? Anyone?
 
walker said:
not really? is it lost in translation? I didn't even include a racial slur ...
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A bit, and Let's not include those. What I meant was I dont believe that just shilling in a thread is enough to necessarily mark someone as a scumbag bastard.
 
Rambo said:
A bit, and Let's not include those. What I meant was I dont believe that just shilling in a thread is enough to necessarily mark someone as a scumbag bastard.
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sure. Its the whole package, imo. I can't say how his CRM works due I've been so disappointed from his behaviour that I couldn't care less about his further efforts. the shilling is so obvious that you can't avoid to notice it, anyway.
 
those are amongst the fugliest makeups I have seen on a clothing fora. paired with mimos' idiocy. tongue pad again ... those guys are really resistant.

#13729 - http://www.styleforum.net/t/130044/the-ultimate-vass-footwear-porn-thread/13725#post_7649181

vass.webp


Vass U last. They were all supposed to be "G" width, but in reality, I think they only increased the width for the blue ones. As you can see, they don't look much different - though the "goyser" welt on the centre and right does make them look wider. I would caution that increasing the width did make the already generous instep quite high volume. It's only a millimetre or two too much, but I'm thinking of popping in an extra bit of leather on the tongue.
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not even the nice trees can save this trainwreck. omg.
 
the sadest part about people like e.g. chogall or mimo.

people are like: wow, this sounds important. he must be a real expert ... ... wtf.

to cut mimo a slack. I admit that it can be difficult to explain the more delicate details to a noob. so better write something which sounds important. here we go ...
 
Isn't it suspicious that JPHardy chimed in??? afaik, he works in the industry ...

"... ein schelm, der böses denkt."
 
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