Protests Across The Globe

Pimpernel Smith

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We're not in Kansas anymore:


Definitely not going to change the USA National Anthem to Imagine. Being The Beatles eulogy to slavery in the song, Penny Lane. There's also the race war subtext in Helter Skelter that Paul McCartney stole from Charles Manson.

They're too white and too toxic as they ain't woke. How very dare they!
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Quality protest. 10/10.

But can't you live with historic art being put into context?

After the statues are gone, then painted artworks will need to go as well. This must be the plan, no?
 

Dropbear

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But can't you live with historic art being put into context?

After the statues are gone, then painted artworks will need to go as well. This must be the plan, no?
Historic art that was completed in 1971? That’s just a losers’ participation trophy on a sacred KKK site.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Historic art that was completed in 1971? That’s just a losers’ participation trophy on a sacred KKK site.
It's certainly an antique.

what does this even mean? historic art. did you know the majority of these statues in america went up in the 60's and 70's?
Indulge me a little...I was on the Mall in Washington last November and looking at some of the statues that were vandalised and some that are targets to be pulled down. In the UK the intent is very much to pull down all statues of colonial era white men and women, also Indians, regardless of any good they did, including ending of slavery.

I am quite able to look at a statue at the historic level: it represents the historic fact. The history. Same with Roman, Greek and Aztec art. In all those cases it is possible to separate the art from the distasteful cultural aspects. Same as you look at a statue of General Lee, it draws you to the history, it doesn't make you a racist, it gives you a sense of what went on, the tragedy of it all.

Again: once the statues have gone, what other art must go?
 

formby002

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What is your favorite and most artistic statue of Hitler in Berlin?
You do realise that those confederate generals were all officers in the US army before the Civil War I hope. Lee was even offered command of the Northern Army by Lincoln. He also trained many of the officers both under his command and those who opposed him

Comparisons with the Nazi Germany are not really comparable. The removal of statues and Nazi artefacts were part of a wider process of denazification. Which wasn't entirely successful.

Check out Prof Franz Six amongst others...
 

Dropbear

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You do realise that those confederate generals were all officers in the US army before the Civil War I hope. Lee was even offered command of the Northern Army by Lincoln. He also trained many of the officers both under his command and those who opposed him

Comparisons with the Nazi Germany are not really comparable. The removal of statues and Nazi artefacts were part of a wider process of denazification. Which wasn't entirely successful.

Check out Prof Franz Six amongst others...
And you realise there were no statues memorialising Lee’s involvement in the Mexican-American War or Harper’s Ferry. Show me the statue of Lee in his American army uniform!
In every case these statues were put up long after the fact, in tribute to his military command of a failed rebellion to defend the institution of slavery and at a time of white Southern insecurity (1920s Jim Crow era and 1960s Civil Rights).
 

Rambo

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You do realise that those confederate generals were all officers in the US army before the Civil War I hope. Lee was even offered command of the Northern Army by Lincoln. He also trained many of the officers both under his command and those who opposed him
Who gives a shit?

"oh you see this guy? Before he owned and brutalized slaves he actually fought for the other side?Then he decided he wanted to keep the slaves more than anything else."
 

formby002

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And you realise there were no statues memorialising Lee’s involvement in the Mexican-American War or Harper’s Ferry. Show me the statue of Lee in his American army uniform!
In every case these statues were put up long after the fact, in tribute to his military command of a failed rebellion to defend the institution of slavery and at a time of white Southern insecurity (1920s Jim Crow era and 1960s Civil Rights).
Look, if you engage in this continual cancel culture you will have hardly anything left. Porsche gone, Mercedes gone BMW. NASA gone, countless pharmaceutical/drug companies gone.

Do you really think that removing a few fucking statues will change things for the better? Really?

Its a fucking side show, performative radicalism, an indulgence for white kids who would scream their heads off if you took their fucking iPhones off them. Somebody should point out to these gobshites where the rare-earth metals used in those devices come from and how, and by whom they're obtained.

Fucking clueless arseholes, they're contemptible.
 

Dropbear

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Wait a minute. The armed black protesters in the OP were really white? It’s always fun to see white people tell black people how they should feel about this shit. Do go on!
 

formby002

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Wait a minute. The armed black protesters in the OP were really white? It’s always fun to see white people tell black people how they should deal about this shit. Do go on!
From what I've seen its mainly white kids...Scoll back a few pages and look at some of those Tweets I linked to, and look at who is lecturing who...
 

formby002

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The protest at Stone Mountain yesterday:

View attachment 34095View attachment 34096
I'm not referring specifcally to that, I'm refering to the movement in total. It is predominantly white people wrecking statues...

However, it nice to see that bunch of charmers all tooled up....cancelling the police will be a real fucking success...

You should start with cancelling your nations gun fetish....that would be a good start...
 

Rambo

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I'm not referring specifcally to that, I'm refering to the movement in total. It is predominantly white people wrecking statues...

However, it nice to see that bunch of charmers all tooled up....cancelling the police will be a real fucking success...

You should start with cancelling your nations gun fetish....that would be a good start...
"Charmers" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence
 

formby002

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"Charmers" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence
It wasn't meant as a complement I assure you...

...if you want to make you country a better, fairer place, you should start by addressing your insane gun culture.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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...if you want to make you country a better, fairer place, you should start by addressing your insane gun culture.
After that 4th of July weekend, one would hope the protesters would regroup, self-reflect and figure out that rampant iconoclasm is probably not the zeitgeist that is needed to resolve America's fetish with guns and violence. But as my American colleague said today, exactly what did Obama do for Chicago in his 8 years as President?

It's all playing out as theatre. The chaos and offense is deliberately contrived, as Kaepernick's tweet shows. Manufactured kabuki moves where black lives matter seem not to matter that much for the glory of the revolution. Black on black don't you know...move along. Utterly brazen and shameless.
 

formby002

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After that 4th of July weekend, one would hope the protesters would regroup, self-reflect and figure out that rampant iconoclasm is probably not the zeitgeist that is needed to resolve America's fetish with guns and violence. But as my American colleague said today, exactly what did Obama do for Chicago in his 8 years as President?

It's all playing out as theatre. The chaos and offense is deliberately contrived, as Kaepernick's tweet shows. Manufactured kabuki moves where black lives matter seem not to matter that much for the glory of the revolution. Black on black don't you know...move along. Utterly brazen and shameless.
My point is, probably clumsily made, is that all this statue toppling is a sideshow. It won't really change anything.

There was a good article by the historian Richard Evans on this very subject in the New Statesman a few weeks back.

 

Kingstonian

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My point is, probably clumsily made, is that all this statue toppling is a sideshow. It won't really change anything.

There was a good article by the historian Richard Evans on this very subject in the New Statesman a few weeks back.

I remember the pink maps and Commonwealth Day in primary school. There were bound copies of ‘The Boys Own Paper’ which was probably the inspiration for ‘Ripping Yarns’. We read John Buchan’s ‘Prester John’ featuring a faraway place called Bulawayo and the Rider Haggard stories too.

I rather like Rhodes because he was a winner whatever his faults. As Alan Partridge points out ‘racism was OK in those days’.

Maybe we could have a new statue for fictional hero ‘Flashman’?
 

Journeyman

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This is a good article from someone of the Left:
Matt Taibbi is a good writer and makes some cogent points.

I don't have time to write much at the moment, but I do want to make one point (albeit perhaps clumsily).

This is about change (obviously) and it's about a pushback against that change. People don't like change, and they also don't like to be told that they're wrong and that they've been doing wrong things, saying the wrong things, believing the wrong things. That's a bit part of the pushback - there's a significant chunk of people who don't want to change, who don't see why they should have to change, or why society should change.

What they don't realise, though, while they're talking about "cancel culture" and about how their freedom of speech is being taken away from them, is that for decades - centuries, even - we had very restricted freedom of speech. People were free to speak about certain topics, of course, but go back any time prior to 1970 or even 1980 and people talking about homosexuality, same-sex marriage, even legalised abortion, ran the very real risk of being shunned, told that they were out of line and, in terms of unemployment, ran the very real risk of losing their job.

So what we view as a "free society" is a society that is free within a particular framework, or milieu. But living within that milieu, people don't necessarily realise that their freedoms are essentially limited in that sense. Now that milieu is being challenged and it makes people uncomfortable.

I'm not supportive of so-called cancel culture and I think that it can easily go too far. Just because you're not free to speak about certain issues on one side of politics, doesn't mean that the other side of politics should shut down discussion of other topics - that's just as bad, if not worse (as it's hypocritical). But let's not pretend that censorship and self-censorship hasn't existed in society for a very long time.

At least nowadays you just get shouted at, either in real life or online. Go back a few centuries and you could be burned at the stake!
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I'm not supportive of so-called cancel culture and I think that it can easily go too far. Just because you're not free to speak about certain issues on one side of politics, doesn't mean that the other side of politics should shut down discussion of other topics - that's just as bad, if not worse (as it's hypocritical). But let's not pretend that censorship and self-censorship hasn't existed in society for a very long time.
It's more than ''easily'' gone too far it's Maoist cultural revolution. Interesting to see the Left priesthood class back-peddling and trying to reign in the attack dogs as Mao had to when they started targeting his own.

They've clearly and correctly realized they have much to lose in an era of revolution where the new political class will become the stars in a highly racialised society based on quotas and reparations. I do believe some of them are now starting to shit their pants. Queue J.K. Rowling's pleading to cancel Cancel Culture which up until the last few weeks she was digging in a big way.
 

Rambo

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It's more than ''easily'' gone too far it's Maoist cultural revolution. Interesting to see the Left priesthood class back-peddling and trying to reign in the attack dogs as Mao had to when they started targeting his own.

They've clearly and correctly realized they have much to lose in an era of revolution where the new political class will become the stars in a highly racialised society based on quotas and reparations. I do believe some of them are now starting to shit their pants. Queue J.K. Rowling's pleading to cancel Cancel Culture which up until the last few weeks she was digging in a big way.
You realize half the people who signed the letter are right wing ghouls and war mongers who parade as democrats, right? Any time david frum and anne applebaum are together you know youre getting fleeced.

all this really is at this point is terfs and various other shitheads trying to protect their asses now that everyone realIzes how shitty they are.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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BBC Music columnist makes a strong case for The Last Night of The Proms to go Woke....nah only kidding, ''They form a kind of unholy trinity: Jerusalem, Land of Hope and Glory and Rule, Britannia!'':


A staid looking musical hack unworthy of further description:

woke.JPG
 

formby002

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BBC Music columnist makes a strong case for The Last Night of The Proms to go Woke....nah only kidding, ''They form a kind of unholy trinity: Jerusalem, Land of Hope and Glory and Rule, Britannia!'':


A staid looking musical hack unworthy of further description:

View attachment 34118
DESPERATELY. TRYING. TO. STAY. RELEVANT. BY. JUMPING. ON. THE. BANDWAGGON. DE. JOUR.
 

Journeyman

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'They form a kind of unholy trinity: Jerusalem, Land of Hope and Glory and Rule, Britannia!'':
I've never actually understood why "Jerusalem" is so popular at these jingoistic events - it's actually a condemnation of England in the 19th century and of the Industrial Revolution.
 

Thruth

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NO FLAGS. NO ANTHEMS. NO STATUES. NO POLICE.

JUSTS HUGS with the correct PPE
 

Pimpernel Smith

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DESPERATELY. TRYING. TO. STAY. RELEVANT. BY. JUMPING. ON. THE. BANDWAGGON. DE. JOUR.
Exactly, an idle hack jumping on the bandwagon in the hope by pointing at others, he won't be noticed or get a pass. He should be the first to give up his privilege to a worthy BAME or LGBTQ+ critic of some talent and distinction.

I've never actually understood why "Jerusalem" is so popular at these jingoistic events - it's actually a condemnation of England in the 19th century and of the Industrial Revolution.
Blake's oeuvre is very complex and difficult to penetrate. Jerusalem is the preface to Milton, from his prophetic works, in which he was creating his own mythology. It's by no means certain he was referring to the Industrial Revolution. Some scholars believe he was referring to churches, others something more abstract. In Milton, Satan's mills are mentioned a number of times and not referring to industrialization.

It's popular because it's a brilliant poem that creates a spiritual hymn.

Jah Wobble's done some good Blake stuff.

NO FLAGS. NO ANTHEMS. NO STATUES. NO POLICE.

JUSTS HUGS with the correct PPE
It's going to be one dull and boring place when these cretins have created their Utopia.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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You realize half the people who signed the letter are right wing ghouls....
Noam Chomsky is included in that?

You'll be glad that 150 academics and journalists have denounced JK Rowling and Noam Chomsky with an open letter on Justice and Open Debate. Which includes this on JK Rowling's attempt to not be erased: ''The signatories, many of them white, wealthy and endowed with massive platforms, argue that they are afraid of being silenced, that so-called cancel culture is out of control, and that they fear for their jobs and free exchange of ideas, even as they speak from one of the most prestigious magazines in the country...''

This is significant: ''many of them white''

The message is being received.

How can this end well?

The only good thing is the revolution is eating itself.
 
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