Sammy Ambrose
Well-Known Member
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Oh, okay. So you are a Shooman acolyte and trainee. I hope you learn your lessons well and don't get sent to his boot camp.
Pimpernel Smith
Tone Deaf Daddy
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Trickers are all country shoes to me, big beefy round lasts.
C&J's have some wide lasts, if you're buying direct online from them, you need to do your research.
Panama
Well-Known Member
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I have tried on C&J in three separate stores and didn't find anything that fit.I am a wide fitting.
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Panama
Well-Known Member
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Loake Export are £399.00 with a fiddle back waist. This is currently only a wholecut Oxford. The Legacy and 1880 ranges are £245.00, I am sure the legacy had a higher price than the 1880 range previously. Unfortunately they are only F fit and I prefer a G fit.
The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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Very interesting
Sammy Ambrose
Well-Known Member
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They now seem to have a variety of shoes in the 1880 Export range. Such as this one.
Export Grade - Loake Shoemakers - classic English shoes and boots
Loake classic English shoemakers since 1880. Popular styles include brogues, oxfords, loafers and boots for sale online.
www.loake.com
Sammy Ambrose
Well-Known Member
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Back to the Loake versus Barker at bargain prices. I got these Herring Premier by Loake a few years ago for about £100 in their sale.
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Loakes have always felt a little less than to me. Meermin not Carmina. Romano Martegani not Moreschi. I'd buy one of their chukkas. Not any shoes. I have Sanders and Barker boots. Well made, hard wearing. Don't mind beating the shit out of them. I've got a pair of McNairy made by Sanders PTB boots with a Ridgeway sole that are bulletproof and going on 15 years.
So definitely value but they just don't turn my crank for shoes. I'm going to meander back to the larger discussion of min-, mid-, and full Shooman. I'll just ramble.
Before I became enlightened, I thought Georgio Brutini and Mezlan were the shit. There were shit. Shit value for the money. When I started making good coin again after taking a 50% pay cut because Mrs. Thruth dragged me to Saskabush to be near her aging parents, I went looking for decent shoes. Decent in town was AE. So I tried them.
But I'm traveling more, NYC for shirts, and Montreal for clothing and shoes. EG and JL. AE's just don't compare. I sent my last pair to Walker for experimentation but he gifted or sold them to some kid to up his shoe game. I remember when C&J from PLal were a canny buy. But C&J are hard to find in Canada. Really only one, maybe two place in Canada at the time. Love their boots and country shoes. Less so the shoes but I was in a long boot-only phase. Now that I've come back to buying shoes again, I rule them in for purchase but don't purchase them. I got fitted for a custom pair of boots but never went through with it given the MTO price versus what I could get from other makers.
At some point along the way I was buying trousers at Epaulet because I was in NYC a lot and the cut and fit of the Walt model was great for me. So they sold Carmina then. They were doing a couple of MTO's for two balmoral boot models so I ordered. Forest last fit great. Nice boots, good price at the time. Not EG, Not JL. Better than AE, Septieme Largeur, Markowski. But I don't find their lasts attractive any more, their price has shot up and they are not Vass.
I think I bought Vass for the first time 14 or 15 years ago. Super canny buy for the price at the time (and today) and the ability to MTO a hand welted shoe. Vass have the best oxblood colour hands down. F last fits a dream and is just right. I don't want a traditional Hungarian last although I am liking them more and I can't wear the U last comfortably any more. Plus they are too fey for me now. But Vass is super solid, well made. When you feel the shoe in your hands and on your feet. Vass just feels top end. At the time they were not fucking around with patinated leather like they are now. Good, solid, rich finishing. Plus you get the communication errors but I can live with the slight cockups. They gave me Haf soles instead of straight double soles. They arrive like clockwork though and I like them far better than the supposedly higher-end pegged and hand-welted St. Crispen's.
Bought them around the same time. Excellent communication with Phillip Carr. When they were under $1000. They are probably the pair I wear the least. Well made. Fragile finishing. Solid and sexy. But it was just lust I guess. So, hand welted feel and fit but nothing that says to me this is the brand that I want. And I don't want them given the ridiculous price they charge today. Not worth it at least to me. My cordwainer did a far better job in the fit and pegging and hand-welting for $1000. He still won't do broguing so we are at a standoff. The other limitation is his access to higher end leather. Gerd always said it was no big deal but I beg to differ. The best hand-welted and fit by far is bespoke, which is a no-brainer. Light in a good way. Like Blake Stitch.
Gravati which are well made, very comfortable shoes with a variety of lasts from traditional to fugly, but probably not worth their retail over here. No comparison to Bonafe which is another canny buy for the price and reasonable MTO fee for what you get which is hand-welted, great fit, killer finishing. No Loake, Barker, Cheaney, Church's, AS competes. Church's Ryder III chukkas are the bomb. No experience with their shoes other than a pair of loafers that I wore today and an seriously thinking of putting in the fire queue. Forgot how uncomfortable they are. JM Weston are overlooked and underrated.
A bitch to buy because I have to go to NYC and that ain't happening any more. Still, an MTO double-monk. Super comfortable so it must be tender-toed iGents who find them too stiff. High quality. I still think they compare favourably to EG. EG is another shoe that is all about quality. You know it. 82 last is the last for me with respect to shame and fit. The 606 works great for a split toe boot, the 202 is wider, old school conservative but EG should be elegant, and I am liking the 888 on the monks I got recently.
I bought a pair of Barker Black wingtip oxfords because they reminded me of EG, after a bong hit. Not for everyone's taste, but well made and not that much off EG. You can't hardly tell it's a skull and crossbones in the medallion.
I like Big Johnny Lobb and I'll tell you why. Sorry. All the lasts I've tried, only the 8000 does not fit well. Once again, solid, quality. I put them above EG. That's just me. And I don't dig their patinas. I'm just a solid finish guy. I keep coming back to them again and again. Like Ludwig Reiter of late. I think this is another overlooked and misunderstood brand. I've just ordered another pair of Norwegers because they are well-made GYW shoes whose shape I dig. Best RTW Norweger/NST design for me. I do have a pair of Sutor Mantellassi hand-welted grain Norvegese autopsy split toes and a pair of Zegna fatto a mano grain split toes coming. I'll post when they arrive.
I think that is most of my experience of buying mid- to full Shooman level shoes. Oh, Papa Kiss' hand welted and erratically pegged, rustic cap toe boots with a squeak and sexy three-piece trees. That is the example of the old craftsman being more old than craftsman IMHO, horses for courses, YMMV.
So definitely value but they just don't turn my crank for shoes. I'm going to meander back to the larger discussion of min-, mid-, and full Shooman. I'll just ramble.
Before I became enlightened, I thought Georgio Brutini and Mezlan were the shit. There were shit. Shit value for the money. When I started making good coin again after taking a 50% pay cut because Mrs. Thruth dragged me to Saskabush to be near her aging parents, I went looking for decent shoes. Decent in town was AE. So I tried them.
But I'm traveling more, NYC for shirts, and Montreal for clothing and shoes. EG and JL. AE's just don't compare. I sent my last pair to Walker for experimentation but he gifted or sold them to some kid to up his shoe game. I remember when C&J from PLal were a canny buy. But C&J are hard to find in Canada. Really only one, maybe two place in Canada at the time. Love their boots and country shoes. Less so the shoes but I was in a long boot-only phase. Now that I've come back to buying shoes again, I rule them in for purchase but don't purchase them. I got fitted for a custom pair of boots but never went through with it given the MTO price versus what I could get from other makers.
At some point along the way I was buying trousers at Epaulet because I was in NYC a lot and the cut and fit of the Walt model was great for me. So they sold Carmina then. They were doing a couple of MTO's for two balmoral boot models so I ordered. Forest last fit great. Nice boots, good price at the time. Not EG, Not JL. Better than AE, Septieme Largeur, Markowski. But I don't find their lasts attractive any more, their price has shot up and they are not Vass.
I think I bought Vass for the first time 14 or 15 years ago. Super canny buy for the price at the time (and today) and the ability to MTO a hand welted shoe. Vass have the best oxblood colour hands down. F last fits a dream and is just right. I don't want a traditional Hungarian last although I am liking them more and I can't wear the U last comfortably any more. Plus they are too fey for me now. But Vass is super solid, well made. When you feel the shoe in your hands and on your feet. Vass just feels top end. At the time they were not fucking around with patinated leather like they are now. Good, solid, rich finishing. Plus you get the communication errors but I can live with the slight cockups. They gave me Haf soles instead of straight double soles. They arrive like clockwork though and I like them far better than the supposedly higher-end pegged and hand-welted St. Crispen's.
Bought them around the same time. Excellent communication with Phillip Carr. When they were under $1000. They are probably the pair I wear the least. Well made. Fragile finishing. Solid and sexy. But it was just lust I guess. So, hand welted feel and fit but nothing that says to me this is the brand that I want. And I don't want them given the ridiculous price they charge today. Not worth it at least to me. My cordwainer did a far better job in the fit and pegging and hand-welting for $1000. He still won't do broguing so we are at a standoff. The other limitation is his access to higher end leather. Gerd always said it was no big deal but I beg to differ. The best hand-welted and fit by far is bespoke, which is a no-brainer. Light in a good way. Like Blake Stitch.
Gravati which are well made, very comfortable shoes with a variety of lasts from traditional to fugly, but probably not worth their retail over here. No comparison to Bonafe which is another canny buy for the price and reasonable MTO fee for what you get which is hand-welted, great fit, killer finishing. No Loake, Barker, Cheaney, Church's, AS competes. Church's Ryder III chukkas are the bomb. No experience with their shoes other than a pair of loafers that I wore today and an seriously thinking of putting in the fire queue. Forgot how uncomfortable they are. JM Weston are overlooked and underrated.
A bitch to buy because I have to go to NYC and that ain't happening any more. Still, an MTO double-monk. Super comfortable so it must be tender-toed iGents who find them too stiff. High quality. I still think they compare favourably to EG. EG is another shoe that is all about quality. You know it. 82 last is the last for me with respect to shame and fit. The 606 works great for a split toe boot, the 202 is wider, old school conservative but EG should be elegant, and I am liking the 888 on the monks I got recently.
I bought a pair of Barker Black wingtip oxfords because they reminded me of EG, after a bong hit. Not for everyone's taste, but well made and not that much off EG. You can't hardly tell it's a skull and crossbones in the medallion.
I like Big Johnny Lobb and I'll tell you why. Sorry. All the lasts I've tried, only the 8000 does not fit well. Once again, solid, quality. I put them above EG. That's just me. And I don't dig their patinas. I'm just a solid finish guy. I keep coming back to them again and again. Like Ludwig Reiter of late. I think this is another overlooked and misunderstood brand. I've just ordered another pair of Norwegers because they are well-made GYW shoes whose shape I dig. Best RTW Norweger/NST design for me. I do have a pair of Sutor Mantellassi hand-welted grain Norvegese autopsy split toes and a pair of Zegna fatto a mano grain split toes coming. I'll post when they arrive.
I think that is most of my experience of buying mid- to full Shooman level shoes. Oh, Papa Kiss' hand welted and erratically pegged, rustic cap toe boots with a squeak and sexy three-piece trees. That is the example of the old craftsman being more old than craftsman IMHO, horses for courses, YMMV.
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The Shooman
A Pretty Face
- Messages
- 5,157
What do you mean by this, Moreschi is better made?
Haven't read a good shoo ramble here for ages. I shall enjoy it.
you bet they are.
It's not just you, it is me too. I put the Big Johnny Lobb above EG too. Solid quality (touch thick high quality leathers and build), great lasts, patterns, the lot. I am liking EG more and more lately however, but they are no Johnny Lobb.
Vass and Big Johnny Lobb is all l really need. Both are essential. If l really had my way it would be Lattanzi and Johnny Lobb, but Vass are more available and affordable and sure make for an excellent shoo wearing experience.
Kiss uses great leather though. No-one uses leather like that anymore, not even Lattanzi.
Thruth
your ramblings were fantastic. Well worth the read, a real treat....the ramblings of a BIG Daddy. Better take note
Sammy Ambrose
, these occasions are rare.
Panama
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 937
Ah, my phone didn't scroll down past the first shoe in five different colours. It's not helped by the cookie warning, the subscription pop up and the live chat with customer support.They now seem to have a variety of shoes in the 1880 Export range. Such as this one.
View attachment 39532Export Grade - Loake Shoemakers - classic English shoes and boots
Loake classic English shoemakers since 1880. Popular styles include brogues, oxfords, loafers and boots for sale online.
Panama
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 937
The Loake Export Hanover is £360.00, the Cheaney Alfred is £380.00 and the Harrington usually £350.00. I may get the Hanover one day. The Cheaney York and Windsor at £495.00 are competing elsewhere. I have the Alfred and Harrington x2 from Cheaney, the Archway, Aldywch and Wadham from Loake. I may get the Phoenix from Barker this weekend. You can never have too many Oxford's.
Panama
Well-Known Member
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They arrived today, I have never had a pair of shoos smell like they just came out the factory. Oh, the smell....
Sammy Ambrose
Well-Known Member
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Stop encouraging me.They arrived today, I have never had a pair of shoos smell like they just came out the factory. Oh, the smell....
Sammy Ambrose
Well-Known Member
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I have copied and pasted it into my exercise book Shooey and will learn it for homework.What do you mean by this, Moreschi is better made?
Haven't read a good shoo ramble here for ages. I shall enjoy it.
you bet they are.
It's not just you, it is me too. I put the Big Johnny Lobb above EG too. Solid quality (touch thick high quality leathers and build), great lasts, patterns, the lot. I am liking EG more and more lately however, but they are no Johnny Lobb.
Vass and Big Johnny Lobb is all l really need. Both are essential. If l really had my way it would be Lattanzi and Johnny Lobb, but Vass are more available and affordable and sure make for an excellent shoo wearing experience.
Kiss uses great leather though. No-one uses leather like that anymore, not even Lattanzi.
Panama
Well-Known Member
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- 937
It's that genuine cobbler smell, I wonder if mortuary's smell this good?
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Is there a shoe sniffers sub out there? I get the feeling that’s a thing.
I’ll even admit that there are few things in this world that smell better than a veg tanned horse hide from the Shinki tannery. I sniff at my leather jacket when no one is looking.
I’ll even admit that there are few things in this world that smell better than a veg tanned horse hide from the Shinki tannery. I sniff at my leather jacket when no one is looking.
Panama
Well-Known Member
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Pimpernel Smith
Tone Deaf Daddy
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Yes, but in the early stages of tanning it smells very bad indeed.
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Hopefully the veg tanning smells a little better than chrome.
The Germans are doing some interesting natural tanning using olive tree product. The leather comes out beautifully soft in spite of the thickness and smelling delicious. I’ve only seen the black in person, but the brown in pics isn’t that nice a color. Definitely doesn’t have the depth of Badalassi or Shinki hides.
formby002
Identifies as a Barn Owl
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Leather sniffing weirdos.
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I do think that Moreschi is better made than Romeo Martegani. Borgioli is better too. I find Martegani to be Italian LoakesWhat do you mean by this, Moreschi is better made?
Haven't read a good shoo ramble here for ages. I shall enjoy it.
you bet they are.
It's not just you, it is me too. I put the Big Johnny Lobb above EG too. Solid quality (touch thick high quality leathers and build), great lasts, patterns, the lot. I am liking EG more and more lately however, but they are no Johnny Lobb.
Vass and Big Johnny Lobb is all l really need. Both are essential. If l really had my way it would be Lattanzi and Johnny Lobb, but Vass are more available and affordable and sure make for an excellent shoo wearing experience.
Kiss uses great leather though. No-one uses leather like that anymore, not even Lattanzi.
- Messages
- 22,297
- Messages
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thanksWhat do you mean by this, Moreschi is better made?
Haven't read a good shoo ramble here for ages. I shall enjoy it.
you bet they are.
It's not just you, it is me too. I put the Big Johnny Lobb above EG too. Solid quality (touch thick high quality leathers and build), great lasts, patterns, the lot. I am liking EG more and more lately however, but they are no Johnny Lobb.
Vass and Big Johnny Lobb is all l really need. Both are essential. If l really had my way it would be Lattanzi and Johnny Lobb, but Vass are more available and affordable and sure make for an excellent shoo wearing experience.
Kiss uses great leather though. No-one uses leather like that anymore, not even Lattanzi.
The Shooman
. The Kiss leather is very butch and robust.
The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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Yes, Moreschi are a well built blake stitch shoe. It's good you know your shoos.
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Most Italian shoes get pooh poohed on the forums. Or less prominent now except for a few. Remember when Ferragamo got more love on SF in the early days? Now an afterthought. They still make Tramezza and they are still good.
Bontoni though, many hand passes-only. $1,300
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robertito
Well-Known Member
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Bontonis are nice. I don't have any, but I have had on my hand (not feet) quite a few times. There is shop next to where I live that carries the brand.
The main reason why I have not bought any is that I think they are expensive for what they are. Don't want to pay usd1,000 for a machine stitched shoe even though the leather is heavily hand patinated.
The main reason why I have not bought any is that I think they are expensive for what they are. Don't want to pay usd1,000 for a machine stitched shoe even though the leather is heavily hand patinated.
The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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Yeah, people don't know what they are talking on S.F for the large part when it comes to shoes. Too much generalising and saying nonsense. They think that blake stitched equals bad, but in fact some blake pairs are very well built, Moreschi being among the best, with a price to match. It is built as a higher end blake constructed shoe meant to hold up well over time (rare).
Truthfully, even some glued soled pairs are better than goodyear, ie, goodyear with cheap leather can be inferior to a glued shoe with high quality leather, but none are really ideal. Some cheap goodyear can't even last 3 rebuilds where-as quality glued constructed shoes can. How many on the forums will ever say that?
Lots of complex factors to think about. Moreschi is well built where-as R.M.Williams and Loake aren't (very basic midend), however Moreschi uses blake construction which is limited when it comes to rebuilds where-as Loake has more potential rebuilds; none-the-less, Moreschi can make for a good shoe experience due to the good build with an elegant look (Loake doesn't do that), and that is what it is really about, the experience and appearance. The materials can be nice on Moreschi, but they aren't the best, and corners can be cut in some areas, but they still do things well with good skill, and it's not made to last forever. It's just a good decent shoe. The best of both worlds would be construction quality and build quality, but with those types of shoes you aren't going to get both. Moreschi has more handwork and skill used to make them where-as Loake and Prada etc are just a basic shoo.
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The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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What do you think of Bontoni's goodyear? They look plainly made with a great patina, but are they are good shoe wearing experience?
Sammy Ambrose
Well-Known Member
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Very nice. A bit of info on the shoes would be interesting. It's only Shooey whose shoo genie has visited all the factories and catalogued them all for input into Shooey's brain as he sleeps or potters around in his shed.
Sammy Ambrose
Well-Known Member
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I have a pair of Italian brogue Derbies. Blake stitched. Rarely worn but a solid shoe. I will dig out soon and take a photo.
Sammy Ambrose
Well-Known Member
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Topy from day one and never worry about rebuilding. Cemented soles don't last in high temperature countries. Even without being worn they can fall apart.
The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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- 5,157
The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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You are getting it wrong again Sammy. Shoes do give off their secrets. Besides, cut open shoes have revealed my intuitions and reading of shoes to have been correct. Why? Because when a person learns how to read a shoe's secrets he gets to understand how things are done. You can tell how a shoe is made inside by looking and feeling the shoe for the most part. There are only so many ways to do things. You can feel the way a handgrade C&J is built different to a benchgrade C&J and how and why it is done, you just need to be observant and use common sense.
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güero
Talk to me like a 5 year old daddy
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fwiw I have a pair and I rarely wear it. Pretty sure I won't buy another one.
The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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I want to buy one for the patina, but the sole/welt features of the shoe puts me off. Looks cheap.
Beautiful Bontoni
but couldn't bring myself to buy them because of the crude making, ie, big wide welts near the waist and the crude looking soles. They might be good shoes, but they lack the refined features.
Cheap looking soles, so not paying $1,300 USD for those.
Make a nice refined waist and nice sole, and build `em like Big Johnny Lobb and i'm on board!
Panama
Well-Known Member
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- 937
How do you guys maintain your shoes? What products do you use?
The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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Highend gyw build v's midend build - more handwork and materials v's less
The single brick house
ALDEN
* Little handwork, less skill in cutting and piecing together strategic goals to make a shoe more solid. Typical midend guts, not built like a tank inside.
R.M.Williams
* Little handwork, much less skill needed, and no real guts
CARMINA
* Little handwork and no guts, and typical Carmina skimping on materials.
Double brick houses
BONTONI
* More skilled handwork - cut leather bits and piecing it in ideal places. GUTS. These little things makes a big difference and improves the shoo experience. Sturdy strong shoos. Notice where it is placed....same with G&G. Extra layers strategically placed. Take note
Sammy Ambrose
.
GAZIANO & GIRLING
* More skilled handwork - cut leather bits and piecing it in ideal places. GUTS.
The single brick house
ALDEN
* Little handwork, less skill in cutting and piecing together strategic goals to make a shoe more solid. Typical midend guts, not built like a tank inside.
R.M.Williams
* Little handwork, much less skill needed, and no real guts
CARMINA
* Little handwork and no guts, and typical Carmina skimping on materials.
Double brick houses
BONTONI
* More skilled handwork - cut leather bits and piecing it in ideal places. GUTS. These little things makes a big difference and improves the shoo experience. Sturdy strong shoos. Notice where it is placed....same with G&G. Extra layers strategically placed. Take note
Sammy Ambrose
. GAZIANO & GIRLING
* More skilled handwork - cut leather bits and piecing it in ideal places. GUTS.
The Shooman
A Pretty Face
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I avoid Saphir renovateur.
Use mainly creams from Boot Black and Saphir.
Also use special products from Boot Black on occasions to lay the foundation for a great shoo shine. Lots of products used at strategic points in time, but usually just paste for maintenance.
Often just a damp rag to wipe over before l start a shine.
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I rather like these side zip boots. They look a lot nicer than the Butteros that were popular a while back.
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