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[fxh]

God this is such a shithole country.

Australia is far from perfect but it's not too bad. One of the best countries to be poor in. But we have too many poor.

The minimum wage of $24 an hour makes coffee expensive - up to around $5 for a good flat white in Melbourne.

Other workplace conditions include min 4 weeks recreation leave, 2 weeks sick leave p.a, and generally another week of personal leave, carers leave, bereavement etc. At least 7 public paid holidays. Common to have 20 weeks pregnancy leave- 10 weeks full paid, 10 weeks half paid. Unpaid parental leave up to 2 years. Fathers or partners can get some parental leave too. Same-sex couples eligible. Compulsory superannuation - usually 9% on top of salary paid by employer. Long service leave -usually 3 months on full pay after 10 years - varies. Free or near free doctors, hospital health care. Max $31 for prescriptions medicine, $7.50 if unemployed or on benefits.

 

[Great White Snark]

Australia is far from perfect but it's not too bad. One of the best countries to be poor in. But we have too many poor.

The minimum wage of $24 an hour makes coffee expensive - up to around $5 for a good flat white in Melbourne.

Other workplace conditions include min 4 weeks recreation leave, 2 weeks sick leave p.a, and generally another week of personal leave, carers leave, bereavement etc. At least 7 public paid holidays. Common to have 20 weeks pregnancy leave- 10 weeks full paid, 10 weeks half paid. Unpaid parental leave up to 2 years. Fathers or partners can get some parental leave too. Same-sex couples eligible. Compulsory superannuation - usually 9% on top of salary paid by employer. Long service leave -usually 3 months on full pay after 10 years - varies. Free or near free doctors, hospital health care. Max $31 for prescriptions medicine, $7.50 if unemployed or on benefits.

What’s a middle income tax % rate to pay for all that?

 

[Dropbear]

What’s a middle income tax % rate to pay for all that?

The average is about 27% (personal)

 

[Grand Potentate]

Australia is far from perfect but it's not too bad. One of the best countries to be poor in. But we have too many poor.

The minimum wage of $24 an hour makes coffee expensive - up to around $5 for a good flat white in Melbourne.

Other workplace conditions include min 4 weeks recreation leave, 2 weeks sick leave p.a, and generally another week of personal leave, carers leave, bereavement etc. At least 7 public paid holidays. Common to have 20 weeks pregnancy leave- 10 weeks full paid, 10 weeks half paid. Unpaid parental leave up to 2 years. Fathers or partners can get some parental leave too. Same-sex couples eligible. Compulsory superannuation - usually 9% on top of salary paid by employer. Long service leave -usually 3 months on full pay after 10 years - varies. Free or near free doctors, hospital health care. Max $31 for prescriptions medicine, $7.50 if unemployed or on benefits.

Coffee’s more expensive here now and we get none of those benefits.

 

[fxh]

What’s a middle income tax % rate to pay for all that?

$0 – $18,200	0%	Nil
$18,201 – $45,000	16%	16c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 – $135,000	30%	$4,288 plus 30c for each $1 over $45,000
$135,001 – $190,000	37%	$31,288 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000
$190,001 and over	45%	$51,638 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,000

 

[fxh]

$0 – $18,200	0%	Nil
$18,201 – $45,000	16%	16c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 – $135,000	30%	$4,288 plus 30c for each $1 over $45,000
$135,001 – $190,000	37%	$31,288 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000
$190,001 and over	45%	$51,638 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,000

Oh, also 11% Goods and Service Tax. GST. Like VAT. On most not all.

 

[Sartodi Napoli]

What’s a middle income tax % rate to pay for all that?

South of Europe: overall 55%

Thanks socialists...

 

[sirloin]

Thanks socialists.

You are most welcome.

 

[Dropbear]

You are most welcome.

 

[Sartodi Napoli]

 

[Dropbear]

I’ve been low-key looking for a slim pique long sleeve polo for a little added warmth and layering while traveling. Invariably I’m also directed to long sleeve polo sweaters (wool or cashmere) - something that ever brand seems to carry. The neck always looks too low to hide a shirt and the product photos never show a model with anything underneath.

I’m left wondering - do guys really wear these without something underneath or are they putting them over tshirts?

For example:

 

[sirloin]

^ I gave op on finding one that I liked, and bought some pull-over shirts. Can only recommend.

 

[Dropbear]

^ I gave op on finding one that I liked, and bought some pull-over shirts. Can only recommend.

I’ll probably end-up with a Sunspel long sleever, just looking around for something a bit cheaper. It’s not like I’m going to wear it with a sportscoat or anything silly like that:

As for polo sweaters, I’m really confused by these on several levels.

 

[kneeshuh]

As for polo sweaters, I’m really confused by these on several levels.

I suppose they are a logical step forward for people who wear long-sleeved polo shirts - essentially the winter version, probably worn with a v-neck undershirt, since merino wool/cashmere would not last long with the washing required when worn without one.

I would not wear it myself, but I could see someone pulling off a navy blazer + chinos, combined with a navy polo sweater instead of a shirt.

 

[Dropbear]

I’ve only ever bought one “non-iron” dress shirt and it was absolute garbage that I didn’t wear once. I’ve read that they are better now, or some places are doing better with them. I’d still prefer normal shirts, but it seems there majority of shirts these days are ‘non-iron’.

Should I reconsider my aversion to these?

 

[Dropbear]

Has anyone seen a Viyella dress shirt? I’m only familiar with their more casual winter shirts.

Viyella Plain White Tailored Fit Cotton Formal Shirt | Tootal

Tailored Fit Single Cuff French Front Darts At The Back

tootal.co.uk

 

[fxh]

I’ve only ever bought one “non-iron” dress shirt and it was absolute garbage that I didn’t wear once. I’ve read that they are better now, or some places are doing better with them. I’d still prefer normal shirts, but it seems there majority of shirts these days are ‘non-iron’.

Should I reconsider my aversion to these?

I used to hate non iron - all sticky, stiff - without any life in them. (Clothes must have life)

But about 12 years ago I got a few OCBD from Lands End that were non-iron - no choice. And they are fine - I mean bloody good - got a bit of life, and very wrinkle resistant. They are still going. I dunno the difference, but all I can say is there's Non-iron - then there's non-iron.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

I used to hate non iron - all sticky, stiff - without any life in them. (Clothes must have life)

But about 12 years ago I got a few OCBD from Lands End that were non-iron - no choice. And they are fine - I mean bloody good - got a bit of life, and very wrinkle resistant. They are still going. I dunno the difference, but all I can say is there's Non-iron - then there's non-iron.

Absolutely right.

I don't have any Lands End. Mine are Pierre Cardin, Ted Lapidus, and Verri. Maybe 18 or so years old. They don't claim to be non-iron; but if you hanger them after washing, they really don't need ir.

 

[Dropbear]

I hadn’t paid attention to the pricing lately. They all went up, except DMO.

I found this outfit recently. Small shop. 4 workers. $80 USD and you have 3 buckle choices, three finishes. Lifetime warranty. It is full grain Hermann Oak bridle leather, which is a notch below Sedgwick. 5 colours. Upgraded buckles over many outfits.

View attachment 48573

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View attachment 48575

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View attachment 48572

The Great American English Bridle Belt

This item has not been disconnected bur rather split into multiple other belts on our site. Tired of purchasing belts every year that look like hell after only a few months? We get it, money doesn't grow on trees and you're not made of it either so it gets expensive buying belts over and over...

www.amopelleco.com

I’m going to give them a shot. I need a biz-cas black belt.

 

[Dropbear]

I’m going to give them a shot. I need a biz-cas black belt.

Their website link to PayPal is broken and they aren’t responding to email. In the meantime, I found an old Amish belt in the closet I can dye black instead.

I’d forgotten about these guys or that I had that belt. Grand Potentate you might be interested. Not as nice as DMO, but a lot cheaper:

High Quality Handcrafted USA Made Work Belts | Amish Made Belts

Browse our collection of Amish made men's full grain leather belts. We carry a variety of thicknesses, finishes, and sizes.

amishmadebelts.com

 

[Grand Potentate]

Their website link to PayPal is broken and they aren’t responding to email. In the meantime, I found an old Amish belt in the closet I can dye black instead.

I’d forgotten about these guys or that I had that belt. Grand Potentate you might be interested. Not as nice as DMO, but a lot cheaper:

High Quality Handcrafted USA Made Work Belts | Amish Made Belts

Browse our collection of Amish made men's full grain leather belts. We carry a variety of thicknesses, finishes, and sizes.

amishmadebelts.com

Thanks for the rec I’ll check them out.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Looking for a good quality hand steamer for someone with arthritis. Nothing too heavy, obviously, but not too flimsy either that they'll need to replace it in 5 minutes. I see Jiffy makes hand steamers now, and their floor units are the gold standard, but does anyone have other more big box store suggestions?

The Wirecutter recommended this Conair:

https://www.amazon.com/Conair-Extreme-Handheld-Steamer-Champagne/dp/B07V91437Y

 

[Dropbear]

I bought a pair of charcoal wool flannel five pocket pants that nicely bridge the casual-semi dress gap. Troubles is, I’m stuck on what sort of belt to wear with them (and tucked in open collar shirt). Something that isn’t a skinny dress belt but also not a lumberjack work belt.

 

[Dropbear]

^
I went with a 35mm Trafalgar dress belt.

 

[fxh]

I bought a pair of charcoal wool flannel five pocket pants that nicely bridge the casual-semi dress gap. Troubles is, I’m stuck on what sort of belt to wear with them (and tucked in open collar shirt). Something that isn’t a skinny dress belt but also not a lumberjack work belt.

View attachment 49340

Looks like a verrrry low rise buddy.

I think I've lectured you about this before.

 

[Dropbear]

What exactly is meant, when people talking about various bespoke tailors, describe a suit cut or style as having ‘narrow shoulders’? As in: ‘Tom Ford has narrower shoulders than Brioni’.

I understand most other descriptors of shoulder style, but isn’t the shoulder size defined by the wearer’s actual shoulder dimensions?

 

[Great White Snark]

No. The likes of Edward Sexton was famous for double breasted jackets with shoulder padding that extended beyond the wearer’s acronium process (that bony bit at the outer limit of your shoulder. Were you not around in the late eighties when these suits were in style? Jacket shoulders went waaay beyond the wearer’s.

As opposed to neopolitan style jackets with spalla camicia or whatever - more natural and thus narrower shoulders with very little padding and sleeves attached shirt-style with tiny pleats around the seam and without wadding or roping at the sleeve head.

 

[Thruth]

What exactly is meant, when people talking about various bespoke tailors, describe a suit cut or style as having ‘narrow shoulders’? As in: ‘Tom Ford has narrower shoulders than Brioni’.

I understand most other descriptors of shoulder style, but isn’t the shoulder size defined by the wearer’s actual shoulder dimensions?

That would not be a bespoke dimension/fit issue. That would be a visual thang as the Brioni signature Roman cut has more structured shoulder treatment than TF. They also have a number of models with natural shoulder treatment and models in between. This is a common sentiment of department store suit scientists and bond wannabes that only see the Roman models.

But, TF is no stranger to structured shoulders depending on the model. Just less padding.

Some iGents state that they have to size up in Brioni RTW because of the shoulders. I never found that with Brioni.

TF is also a rigid suit and Brioni is the opposite of rigid.

 

[Dropbear]

No. The likes of Edward Sexton was famous for double breasted jackets with shoulder padding that extended beyond the wearer’s acronium process (that bony bit at the outer limit of your shoulder. Were you not around in the late eighties when these suits were in style? Jacket shoulders went waaay beyond the wearer’s.

As opposed to neopolitan style jackets with spalla camicia or whatever - more natural and thus narrower shoulders with very little padding and sleeves attached shirt-style with tiny pleats around the seam and without wadding or roping at the sleeve head.

So saying a bespoke suit has “narrow shoulders” would mean that it fits correctly and not like a 1980s power suit?

That would not be a bespoke dimension/fit issue. That would be a visual thang as the Brioni signature Roman cut has more structured shoulder treatment than TF. They also have a number of models with natural shoulder treatment and models in between. This is a common sentiment of department store suit scientists and bond wannabes that only see the Roman models.

But, TF is no stranger to structured shoulders depending on the model. Just less padding.

Some iGents state that they have to size up in Brioni RTW because of the shoulders. I never found that with Brioni.

TF is also a rigid suit and Brioni is the opposite of rigid.

All this I get, just not why someone would describe the shoulder structure as ‘narrow’.

 

[Thruth]

So saying a bespoke suit has “narrow shoulders” would mean that it fits correctly and not like a 1980s power suit?


All this I get, just not why someone would describe the shoulder structure as ‘narrow’.

Narrow shoulders does not equate to "fits correctly". A bespoke suit is going to fit the client well if the tailor is skilled regardless of the house cut shoulder structure. I'm trying to say "narrow shoulders" is not something that comes up in a intelligent discussion of bespoke suits.

 

[Dropbear]

Narrow shoulders does not equate to "fits correctly". A bespoke suit is going to fit the client well if the tailor is skilled regardless of the house cut shoulder structure. I'm trying to say "narrow shoulders" is not something that comes up in an intelligent discussion of bespoke suits.

That makes sense, but I don’t think it’s the same as what Great White Snark is saying (and whom I was replying to).

 

[Dropbear]

And for good measure, I asked the author of the book I’m reading what he meant by some some houses making a narrower shoulder and he responded:

It’s about the width of the jacket’s shoulder relative the the wearer’s shoulder. When there’s enough fullness in the sleeve head the jacket’s actual shoulder can be narrower. The fullness in the sleeve head and upper sleeve ensures comfort, mobility and drape.

I’m assuming the differences are going to be a few mm and no more.

 

[belinmad]

And for good measure, I asked the author of the book I’m reading what he meant by some some houses making a narrower shoulder and he responded:



I’m assuming the differences are going to be a few mm and no more.

No. Differences are significant between say Sexton’s pagoda shoulders and any neapolitan tailor’s cut.
No one better than crompters as example

 

[Dropbear]

No. Differences are significant between say Sexton’s pagoda shoulders and any neapolitan tailor’s cut.
No one better than crompters as example

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That’s actually amazing how different they look. Or, rather, how different they appear to make him look. In the top pic he appears to be a normal human shape (even if I’m not a fan of the pagado style) and in the bottom it could just be a face photoshopped onto a hanger. But maybe that’s also the taller collar breaking the shoulder line in the top pic.

 

[belinmad]

That’s actually amazing how different they look. Or, rather, how different they appear to make him look. In the top pic he appears to be a normal human shape (even if I’m not a fan of the pagado style) and in the bottom it could just be a fave photoshopped onto a hanger. But maybe that’s also the taller collar breaking the shoulder line in the top pic.

Spot on. No one really understands his obsession with southern Italian soft cut when he looks like shit in them, while a more structured english cut makes him look great

 

[Great White Snark]

I can’t be bothered to dig it up but I actually read a post by him in which he said he likes his sloping shoulders. Quite why someone who’s set himself up as an arbiter of classical style would try to make a virtue of this deficiency rather than use the skills of tailoring to mitigate it remains a mystery to me. I mean it’s fine to turn your back on body dysmorphia and embrace whatever god / genetics / gymnasiums have given you but to try and push off those milk bottle shoulders as a desirable bonus is ridiculous.

 

[Dropbear]

Thruth Im going to get a pair of 5 pocket high rise pants made at Luxire.

Is back rise largely function of front rise plus X or is there something else to consider with jeans?

This will always be work with shirts untucked - it’s more about putting the belt line under my polo or jacket.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Thruth Im going to get a pair of 5 pocket high rise pants made at Luxire.

Is back rise largely function of front rise plus X or is there something else to consider with jeans?

pants or jeans? which one are we working with here? you don't exactly have the biggest ass on the face of the earth but still, there are big differences in fits there.

 

[Dropbear]

pants or jeans? which one are we working with here? you don't exactly have the biggest ass on the face of the earth but still, there are big differences in fits there.

Not denim, but effectively jeans in that they are a 98/2 stretch twill in a 5 pocket pattern.

if the front rise is 13” then 16” for the back?

 

[Thruth]

Thruth Im going to get a pair of 5 pocket high rise pants made at Luxire.

Is back rise largely function of front rise plus X or is there something else to consider with jeans?

This will always be work with shirts untucked - it’s more about putting the belt line under my polo or jacket.

back rise for historic fit jeans are based on historical workwear patterns, and have significant back rises. modern jeans that are more fashion focussed, have lower back rises. A lower back rise can make for a tighter fit overall because you don't have as much material sloping from back to front. higher rises can result in poor fits especially for the assless. You should find your best fitting pants of a similar cut and measure the rises. you should not have to wear a belt if they are properly cut for you.