Is The Discussion Of The Shitty Parts Of Islam Bigotry?

Why are you even watching that infotainment shit? BBC News on now and PBS Newshour coming on in a few.
 
Well this was bound to happen and while I'm not glad, I hope this open our eyes and we get put everybody into check for the countries that we support specially those that are participating in the Syrian war against Asad have a lot to do with this. The countries that have never done anything against us in the last 20 years or so like Syria and Iran are the ones that are getting all the blame while Saudi Arabia and their Wahabis, UAE, The Muslim Brotherhood, and so on have a lot to do with this.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/new-questions-raised-about-u-s-saudi-relationship-1.2890528


go backNewsWorld

i
New questions raised about U.S.-Saudi relationship
The 28 pages. U.S. legislators pushing to know more about alleged Saudi role in 9/11

ANALYSISJan 06, 2015 9:31 AM ETNeil Macdonald, CBC News

Just before the holidays, Barack Obama signed a new law punishing Venezuela's leaders for human rights violations — for persecution and imprisonment of union leaders, journalists and protesters, and for a general disregard for the law.

"The United States," proclaimed the sanctions, "supports the people of Venezuela in their efforts to … advance representative democracy, human rights and the rule of law."

Also, the State Department says, Venezuela is far too cozy with terrorists, maintaining a "permissive environment" for, among other villains, agents of Iran and Hezbollah.

Nasty, nasty Venezuela. How could Obama allow such sins to go unpunished?

Now, at about the same time as Obama was sanctioning Venezuela's terrorist-coddling human rights violators, Loujain al Hathloul and Maysa al Hathmoudi were arrested at the border of Saudi Arabia, a close and loyal ally of the U.S. in its struggle against global terror.

Their crime was an act that's actually encouraged in Venezuela; more on that in a minute.

In Washington's view, Saudi Arabia is all that Venezuela is not. It disapproves of violent Islamists (or at least the ones in other countries). It's allowed to buy all sorts of advanced American weaponry. It's described as a "force for regional stability."

The advice of Saudi leaders is publicly cherished by American presidents: "I thought it was very important to come to the place where Islam began and to seek his majesty's counsel," Obama gushed during a 2009 visit.

George W. Bush was once photographed, to the amusement of some Republicans, holding hands with the Saudi monarch.

Anyway, back to the two suspects arrested at the border in December.

The pair, both women, were whisked off to face the country's anti-terror court.

What punishment they might eventually receive is unclear, but given Saudi's reputation for torturing and scourging and beheading, suffice it to say you wouldn't want to be Loujain al Halthoul or Maysa al Hathmoudi right now.

Their crime? Driving. Or, to be precise: driving while female.

Who likes sorcerers anyway?
Now, driving while female is a pretty serious charge in the kingdom, although not as bad as sorcery. Or criticizing the government.

The Saudis chopped off an accused sorcerer's head (along with dozens of other heads) in August.

In October, a Saudi court sentenced a revered Shia cleric to death for advocating non-violent protests against the treatment of the country's minority Shia population. Police then arrested his brother for tweeting about the death sentence.

Washington, though, isn't quite so keen on standing with the people of Saudi Arabia in their efforts to advance rule of law, etc., etc.

First of all, lawmakers here are far too busy attacking and sanctioning countries that commit violence America disapproves of.

Second, and I say this at the risk of sounding idiotically naive, Saudi Arabia has, um, oil.



mideast-saudi-arabia-islamic-state.jpg

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry discusses the ISIS threat with Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, in September 2014. (The Associated Press)


Not only does it have oil, it's willing to keep pumping and selling it in undiminished quantities as oil prices worldwide plummet, making it a lot cheaper to drive big cars and SUVs, and in the process, crippling other less cherished oil producers such as Russia, Iran and Venezuela.

Given all that, what's a few hundred annual beheadings and floggings and the widespread crushing of legitimate dissent? So what if the Saudis dispatch the occasional sorcerer? Who likes sorcerers anyway?

28 pages
American forbearance, though, goes much further where the Saudis are concerned. So much further.

For more than a decade now, 28 pages in a congressional report about the 9/11 attacks have been entirely excised.

To allow the American public access to the information they contain, says the government, would imperil national security.

President Bush first ordered them censored, and President Obama has kept them sealed.

The section deals with foreign financial support of the 19 men who flew passenger jets into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in 2001.

By several accounts — including statements by two former Senators who sat on the 9/11 commission — the sealed pages point the finger at America's close friend and ally in the war on terror, Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia has consistently denied any advance knowledge of, or connection to the hijackers, but some information in the 28 pages has already leaked.

According to multiple reports here, the FBI and CIA suggest Saudi Arabia provided at least indirect support and funding for the attackers.

And the report isn't talking about the usual "wealthy Saudi sympathizers," we so often hear about. No, the pages reportedly describe consular and financial support by officials of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

It is a long-established fact that 15 of the 19 attackers were Saudi citizens. That in itself, let alone official complicity, would likely have provoked a pestilence of drone-launched missiles on any other country.

But Saudi Arabia is different. Americans have been trained to believe the royal family is decent and pro-American, and must unfortunately allow the odd excess in order to satisfy the awful fundamentalist Wahhabist clerics who constantly threaten the royals from within.

So America must be understanding, you see. Though some U.S. lawmakers who have seen the 28 pages are not terribly understanding. They are as outraged as you'd probably expect.

Former Senator Bob Graham of Florida, who chaired the congressional inquiry, has tried to get at some of the case files written by FBI investigators looking into Saudi connections. He has been calling it a "coverup."

Congressmen Walter Jones, a Republican, and Stephen Lynch, a Democrat, have read the 28 pages, but are constrained by law from discussing their contents. So they have now proposed a Congressional resolution asking Obama to declassify the material.

Trouble is, the 28 pages might contain the truth, and as Jack Nicholson once famously yelled, people can't handle the truth.

It's a diplomatic dilemma.

Let's see: Venezuela, Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia, Venezuela. Hmmmmm.

Well, they have at least one thing in common: Both of them sit on the UN Human Rights Council.
 
Most people die at the hands of their brethren. Religious or secular
 
Imma state that the Charlie Hebdo people really seem to be awful bigots that went out of their way to antagonize and mock minorities. Let's pretend that some group put up something like this
jews_image49.jpg
The offended group would be totally up in arms and launch a giant media attack. The Muslims don't really have the mainstream media at their beck and call. They have guns. Use what you have, I say.
 
Can't have it both ways. Muslim media is rife with anti-Semitic cartoons and characterizations.
 
Well, its not like its Der Sturmer or anything like it.
 
Thruth said:
Can't have it both ways. Muslim media is rife with anti-Semitic cartoons and characterizations.
Click to expand...
I intentionally used the word mainstream. For all I know, Telemundo is mocking me night and day. Niche media is invisible outside a demographic.
Anyway, these cartoonists had their old offices burned down and they couldn't take a hint? I'm not saying they deserved death, but they did seem to be asking for it.

If I haven't said it before, the Muslim birth rate assures us that this is the way of the future. Also, extremism and true believers have an appeal. People don't mind being hated, but being mocked is intolerable.
 
Russell Street said:
I intentionally used the word mainstream. For all I know, Telemundo is mocking me night and day. Niche media is invisible outside a demographic.
Anyway, these cartoonists had their old offices burned down and they couldn't take a hint? I'm not saying they deserved death, but they did seem to be asking for it.

If I haven't said it before, the Muslim birth rate assures us that this is the way of the future. Also, extremism and true believers have an appeal. People don't mind being hated, but being mocked is intolerable.
Click to expand...

Point well taken. The ahmadiyya Muslim's have made the point that the cartoons are offensive but taking the law - religious or secular - into ine's own hands is wrong.
 
This paper mocked Jews and Christians too, so this line of reasoning isn't really going anywhere
 
I think Christian fundamentalists should start blowing up things and killing. The would be a formidable force against the terrorists. The battle of Walmart would be much studied in war colleges
 
John Lee Pettimore III said:
The whole blame-the-West apologism shit is really infuriating.

More Muslims die from Islamic terrorism than anyone else. Blaming shit on Israel, the US, European military expeditions from 500 years ago, etc... just ignores and excuses the barbarism of these fucking monsters towards their own people. Start holding them more accountable and you will save more Muslim lives than you would playing Neville Chamberlain.
Click to expand...

I was with you until the last sentence.

These people love to fight. If they aren't blowing up cartoonists, they'd be doing what they're doing now with this ISIS bullshit.

The problem here is that they want to come live in westernized countries to suck up the good stuff, but then can't handle the tolerance required to be part of such a society. If you just stopped buying their oil and just ignored them, they'd be killing each other. Other than oil, they don't produce anything so fuck them. Eventually all the militants will cancel each other out. You might have to see a lot of civilian death, but you get the society you deserve, and frankly, they don't do much to warrant a different outcome.


doghouse said:
This paper mocked Jews and Christians too, so this line of reasoning isn't really going anywhere
Click to expand...

I was coming to post this. It's not as if they were only targeting the religion of peace.
 
doghouse said:
This paper mocked Jews and Christians too, so this line of reasoning isn't really going anywhere
Click to expand...
As I already mentioned, Jews browbeat their enemies using the media, at least in America. I'm one to believe in God helps those that help themselves. Don't like what some paper prints about you? Don't whine about it. Don't lobby for intrusive legislation. Go to the source. If diplomacy fails, war.
Note that Christians have gone from the dominant force in culture and politics to a butt of jokes in a fairly short period of time. The Muslims will not let that happen to them. Smart people.
 
Russell Street said:
As I already mentioned, Jews browbeat their enemies using the media, at least in America. I'm one to believe in God helps those that help themselves. Don't like what some paper prints about you? Don't whine about it. Don't lobby for intrusive legislation. Go to the source. If diplomacy fails, war.
Note that Christians have gone from the dominant force in culture and politics to a butt of jokes in a fairly short period of time. The Muslims will not let that happen to them. Smart people.
Click to expand...

Jews use a lot more than the media. There are a lot of lawyers within that gaggle.
 
Sad day when a guy like Hannity starts making sense (save for the idiocy at the end). This 'religious leader' is what mainstream Islam is.


Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
 
Last edited:
Do I need to get Manton in here to explain Machiavellianism?
A little immorality that ensures respect and fear and the continued strength and growth of the cause is necessary.
The Muslims in Europe are the new guy in prison. If they show weakness, they are done. One cannot allow public mockery and expect anything good to come of it.
 
Apparently I underestimated the amount of deliberate provocation being done my this insignificant magazine. It seems that Islamophobia is a tool of political divisiveness in the same way the gays are used domestically.
http://archive.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=5607
Don’t let Charlie Hebdo be seen as a victim

By Siraj Datoo

20.jpg
The offices of the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo burned the day it was due to publish an issue with a cover appearing to make fun of Islamic law

Can satire and Islamism co-exist? This was the question posed on the MailOnline’s comment website, Right Minds, shortly after the firebombing of the headquarters of Charlie Hebdo (Charlie Weekly), a satirical French magazine in Paris.

Following the election of Islamic parties in Tunisia and Libya, Editor of Charlie Hebdo, Stephane Charbonnier, decided to publish a “special edition” of the newspaper which declares Prophet Muhammad to be the “guest editor” and features a comic image of him on the front cover.

Yet is the MailOnline’s question the one we should be analysing? Perhaps we should instead be focussing on the issue of freedom of expression; talking about the firebomb as Charbonnier argues that it was “an attack on freedom itself” and in particular the freedom of expression. This is also the opinion of many French political leaders and commentators who all came out in a similar tone. French Prime Minister, Francois Fillon, for example, said that “all attacks on the freedom of the press must be condemned with the greatest firmness.”

Indeed, the attack on the satirical weekly was inexcusable and freedom of the press is an extremely important value to defend – and this is also the attitude taken by head of the French Council of the Muslim Faith, Mohammed Moussaoui. What is most striking is that this attack occurred before the paper had even reached the public – the perpetrators had not even seen what the issue consisted of before they threw Molotov cocktails.

This brings us to a yet a more important point. The reason that Charlie Hebdo was already being talked about – and possibly (at the time of writing the culprits remain unknown) why its headquarters were set ablaze – was because the editors had already revealed details of this “special edition” to the media. The newspaper had effectively informed the public what the paper was going to contain before it was published, rather a strange move for a newspaper. Unless, of course, their aim was to provoke.

Freedom of the press allows newspapers to put across their own viewpoint, criticise the government and Charlie Hebdo is meant to be a weekly that satirises the latest political events. However, this issue was direct goading and I argue that the primary aim was to create controversy in order to gain international news attention, especially since it seems they are in dire need of good marketing. After all, I live in France and this is the first time I have heard of the paper. Even worse (for them), I received disgusted looks in the first five newsagents I visited asking for Charlie Hebdo each saying that they didn’t stock the paper.

When I eventually obtained a copy, it became clearer why the other newsagents did not sell the paper. For a satire, it missed one crucial element; the paper is just not funny. The front cover depicts a cartoon of the Prophet in which he jokes, “A hundred lashes if you don’t die of laughter!” The editorial, apparently written by the Prophet, states, “There is no god but God, otherwise all hell will be let loose.” Further inside, another image of the Prophet is seen. This time, he has a red nose with a caption, “Yes, Islam and humour are compatible.”

If this was a theatre, the phrase used to describe the paper would be “all sparkle and no dazzle”. The issue is simply an attempt to mock perceived Islamic values, rather than to make a serious point and this is demonstrated further in their other comic skits, with a special feature insulting the idea of the niqab and ridicules the idea that neither Tunisia nor Libya can be democratic if they are lead by Islamic governments. Essentially, the jokes are poor and a little dreary.

Now Charlie Hebdo has started to act the martyr. They re-published the same issue in the name of freedom of expression and started to whinge when they no longer could moderate the comments on their Facebook page and have criticised the corporation. What they failed to mention is that they in fact broke Facebook’s Terms and Conditions by creating a fake user account called Charlie Hebdo and that the social netwrok has been deleting such user accounts for the past year.

This anarchist paper prides itself on its ability to make humorous commentary on political issues yet this special issue lacked hilarity and instead has continued the right-wing Islamophobic trend that has been sweeping the country in recent years. Without even reflecting on the niqab ban earlier this year and the ban on wearing the hijab in public schools, the Government last year went so far as sponsoring debates around the country about the role of Islam in French society, all in the name of secularism. For too long have French governments been targeting Muslims as part of their sinister right-wing agenda to gain more votes. Perhaps the political leaders should now be asking whether they have indeed gone too far with their attack on Islam and should instead be concentrating on real matters that affect the nation, such as the fact that their unemployment rate is an astounding 9.9%.
Click to expand...
tl;dr
  1. “Now Charlie Hebdo has started to act the martyr”
  2. “The issue is simply an attempt to mock perceived Islamic values, rather than to make a serious point”
  3. “this issue was direct goading and I argue that the primary aim was to create controversy”
  4. “this special issue lacked hilarity and instead has continued the right-wing Islamophobic trend that has been sweeping the country”
  5. “Perhaps the political leaders should now be asking whether they have indeed gone too far with their attack on Islam and should instead be concentrating on real matters that affect the nation”
  6. “They re-published the same issue in the name of freedom of expression and started to whinge”
 
Interesting words from Charlie Hebdo's editor & senior editor:

Attacking all religions is the basis of our identity

We have to carry on until Islam has been rendered as banal as Catholicism

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-even-more-fractured-after-the-charlie-hebdo-rampage-1.2893262

ANALYSIS
France even more fractured after the Charlie Hebdo rampage
Attack on satirical weekly can only help the far-right, anti-immigrant movement

In life they were scruffy, talented pests, insolent anarchists, journalists and cartoonists at a weekly obsessed with sex and religion — particularly religion.

In death they were "courageous chroniclers" who had "marked generations of French people with their insolence." They had carried a message of liberty "which we will continue to defend in their name."

Those were the words of the French president François Hollande as he declared a national day of mourning Thursday for the slain journalists and cartoonists of the weekly satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

The last national day of mourning in France was to mark Sept. 11, 2001.

The scruffy pests were dedicated to satire and irony. It seems fair to assume they would have found the irony deep and delicious that, in death, they have been transformed into martyrs and national heroes.

Even before Hollande spoke, there were spontaneous demonstrations, notably one involving tens of thousands of Parisians at the Place de la République, not far from the bloodied offices of Charlie Hebdo.

The choice of the Place de la République was fitting. The journalists of Charlie Hebdo were part of what the French call "the republican tradition."

Eleven decades ago, in 1905, the French Assembly decreed a rigid separation between state and church. The Charlie Hebdo journalists went further, waging joyous and often ferocious war against religion, all religions.

"Attacking all religions is the basis of our identity," senior editor George Biard once said. He is still alive because he was in London when the murderous attack took place.

"We have to carry on until Islam has been rendered as banal as Catholicism." Those were the words two years ago of Stéphane Charbonnier, the cartoonist known as Charb who was also the editor of the weekly.

On Wednesday he was one of the 12 (including two policemen caught up in the attack) shot to death while holding an editorial meeting.

A fractured society

In pursuing Charb's goal, the weekly has regularly published cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammed, which have triggered threats, a fire-bombing in 2011, the need for police protection and even harsh words from the French foreign minister who once suggested it wasn't intelligent of the weekly "to pour fuel on the fire."

Charlie Hebdo ignored him. This week's issue has on its cover a cartoon about Submission, the controversial new novel by Michel Houellebecq.

The plot is simple: just a few years down the road France elects a Muslim president in a bid to block the far-right, anti-immigration Front National from taking power. Critics have lambasted the book for offering intellectual underpinning to a nightmare scenario often mentioned by the Front National itself. It's a gift, one said, to Front National Leader Marine Le Pen.

The murderous assault on Charlie Hebdo may be an even bigger gift.

France is a fractured society, many would say a fractured society in a fractured continent.

In France's case, it has a largely disaffected Muslim population of over five million people and an increasingly influential far-right party that points to "outsiders" and "foreigners" as the source of the country's problems.

France is not alone in this, though. Next door in Germany the government of Angela Merkel looks on with alarm as anti-Islamic marches took place around the country this past week.

Germany has an even larger Muslim population, composed principally of Turks who came as so-called guest workers in the 1960s, and who, like the North Africans who went to France at the same time, stayed.

Their children are now citizens of a country that doesn't quite accept them.

The shock here in France after Wednesday's attack is immense. It is, after all, the most murderous attack on French soil since the time of the colonial war in Algeria more than 50 years ago.

But the shock is also personal. Two of the victims — Georges Wolinski and Cabu — were grand old men of French cartooning, their work seen by millions, notably on television where Cabu made his mark doing instant cartoons for years on a popular political talk show. Wolinski had even been awarded the Légion d'Honneur.

And so the enormous emotional reaction and the call to unity. Hollande called French unity "our best weapon. Nothing can divide us."

Perhaps. But just hours earlier a French woman of North African origin talked, in tears, of going back to her office in the afternoon and finding everyone looking at her suspiciously.

One other poisonous fact. One Charlie Hebdo journalist, a survivor of the attack, reported that the killers spoke fluent French, thus igniting the suspicion that the hooded men were French radicalized Muslims.

A call for unity and a national day of mourning for courageous martyrs may mask the fissures in French society for a time, but that time may be short.

Within hours Marine Le Pen was exploiting the attack, saying time was up for denial and hypocrisy. Fingers had to be pointed, officially at Islamic fundamentalism, but unofficially, it seemed, at Muslims in general and other perceived outsiders.

This attack will linger like a poison in the bloodstream of French society.
 
Some Muslim(s) shot and killed a cop today. Different ones than the brothers.

The brothers robbed a gas station though.
 
Charlie Hebdo attacked any and all authority, an admirable mission, not religion in particular.

They are very left wing, which I'm not, but my libertarian/anarchist base agrees with their methods. Everyone should be mocked. Muslim, Jew, Christian, white, black , rich, poor. Everyone. Anyone who is offended by being mocked should be mocked that much harder.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 4 (members: 0, guests: 4)
Back
Top Bottom