The Biden Presidency

Journeyman

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You need rolling thunder type levelling to get out of this one.

But what did that achieve in Vietnam (apart from, as Dropbear noted) an awful lot of civilian casualties and unexploded bombs still buried over northern Vietnam? The US lost in Vietnam and withdrew.

Anyway, the US did try that in Afghanistan - it ran carpet bombing missions using B-52s back in the years after the US first invaded. It seemed to work about as well as it did in Vietnam.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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In terms of optics: Biden needs a big hit to nullify the shambolic withdrawal and the look of weakness and capitulation which will be exploited to the utmost.

If you're not prepared to take on those who throw gays from roofs and keep women locked away in bags, then you have no moral right to lecture the world on LGBTQ issues and correct pronouns. None whatseover.

Biden's America looks weak and shifty.
 

doghouse

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n terms of optics: Biden needs a big hit to nullify the shambolic withdrawal and the look of weakness and capitulation which will be exploited to the utmost.

By reenacting one of America's dumbest foreign policy decisions? And carpet bombing a land that is already rubble? Are you daft man?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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By reenacting one of America's dumbest foreign policy decisions? And carpet bombing a land that is already rubble? Are you daft man?
Already told you want I meant. I purposely did not use capitals for Rolling Thunder.

In the absence of something big, bold, targetted and projecting devastating US might and power, you're left with a shifty and untrusted administration.

Don't underestimate how toxic Biden's brand is outside of America.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Don’t underestimate how fringe and obtuse your regurgitated opinions are.
Biden is popular? He's pretty much soiled his reputation in the UK and that's not a ''fringe and obtuse'' position.

That's mainstream: military, political and MSM.

Do keep it up old chap.
 

doghouse

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I mean if someone asked me how to respond to the attack my answer would be targeted drone strikes to kill ISIS and that's literally what we are doing.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I mean if someone asked me how to respond to the attack my answer would be targeted drone strikes to kill ISIS and that's literally what we are doing.
Yes and no. This is not a normal situation of a terrorist attack.

It doesn't demand the what got us into this mess in the first place policies of Bush Jnr. But it does require a show of ruthless fire power and sustained over the next few days to get the message across to ISIS-K, affiliates and the Taliban that any malarkey will be met with ruthless and relentless destruction. It's not like America hasn't got that fire power is it? And you need to name the names of those who have been taken out. Along with the structure of the organisation wiped out.

Trump's position in the negotiations with the Taliban was transparent as regards the conditions and one of them was that they would take out the Taliban leader and not only him, but his whole village. You need the stomach for that, or at least the threat of that. We had it in WWII and we need it now. Otherwise, they'll be on our streets in the next wave of Islamist terror and the cells are everywhere waiting for a message of our ultimate decadent weakness which they've just received loud and clear.
 

doghouse

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We had it in WWII and we need it now.

You are entirely too weak to have survived WWII. Along with all the people who follow the propaganda you consume. It's literally the antithesis of strength.

And just so you are up to speed ISIS K are the bombers, who are not the Taliban and in fact their sworn enemies.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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You are entirely too weak to have survived WWII. Along with all the people who follow the propaganda you consume. It's literally the antithesis of strength.

And just so you are up to speed ISIS K are the bombers, who are not the Taliban and in fact their sworn enemies.
Yes, but we've been fighting against both of them. This isn't an enemy of my enemy is my friend moment. Or are you in the camp that the Taliban are actually our brothers/misunderstood good country boys that we've suddently decided to get into bed with? The message needs to be sent to all of them.

My ancestors were strong or lucky enough to survive WWII, hence I get a pass on that one.
 

Dropbear

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Stalin(*) was more popular in the UK than Trump.

(*) especially amongst the Labour Party.

The bar is pretty low there, but yeh … at least until 1939 if you don’t count the trots and anarchists. And definitely after ‘41. Maybe not so much for that middle bit.
 

doghouse

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This isn't an enemy of my enemy is my friend moment

It's literally one of those moments. We have billions in money from Afghanistan. You mete it out in drips to keep the Taliban in a hopefully subservient enough state to clamp down on jihad. Which is in their best interests at the moment anyway. They will be beheading ISISK fighters here shortly.
 

Journeyman

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If you're not prepared to take on those who throw gays from roofs and keep women locked away in bags, then you have no moral right to lecture the world on LGBTQ issues and correct pronouns. None whatseover.

Just to clarify - your position is that in order to criticise other country's actions, you must be prepared to invade countries so as to try to force them to change? Or am I somehow misunderstanding your phrasing?

Biden is popular? He's pretty much soiled his reputation in the UK and that's not a ''fringe and obtuse'' position.

That's mainstream: military, political and MSM.

I wasn't aware that The Spectator was so mainstream.

Trump's position in the negotiations with the Taliban was transparent as regards the conditions and one of them was that they would take out the Taliban leader and not only him, but his whole village. You need the stomach for that, or at least the threat of that. We had it in WWII and we need it now. Otherwise, they'll be on our streets in the next wave of Islamist terror and the cells are everywhere waiting for a message of our ultimate decadent weakness which they've just received loud and clear.

I thought Trump's position was to telegraph the US's indication to withdraw well in advance; not involve the Afghan government in negotiations; lift sanctions against the Taliban; and release 5,000 Taliban prisoners.

Did I miss something?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Just to clarify - your position is that in order to criticise other country's actions, you must be prepared to invade countries so as to try to force them to change? Or am I somehow misunderstanding your phrasing?



I wasn't aware that The Spectator was so mainstream.



I thought Trump's position was to telegraph the US's indication to withdraw well in advance; not involve the Afghan government in negotiations; lift sanctions against the Taliban; and release 5,000 Taliban prisoners.

Did I miss something?
In order to virtue signal with moral authority, you need to be committed to go all the way. If the mission was to fly the rainbow flag above the Kabul Embassy and then leave the LGBTQ's to the Taliban, then the mission was twisted somehow. If you weren't willing to defend the gays of Afghanistan, then don't push it. Victor Davis Hanson nails it:


The Spectator, is establishment media on all accounts:

Trump had some pretty strong conditions and Biden could have ripped-up the deal. Clearly, to keep Afghanistan stable a presence of Western forces was needed to give the Afghan state and army backbone.
 

Dropbear

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Doesn’t excuse the poor military command of the withdrawal and the Intel errors in assessing the ANA, but still …

E1E8BEF3-E71C-4F63-86FD-726F6BEC8FA5.jpeg
 

Fwiffo

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If the era of remaking other countries is over, what about the era of let's put up physical and bureaucratic walls because we don't want you?

"'The border wall crosses deserts, mountains and even mangroves. It is not just desert, and is in fact very biodiverse with more than 1,500 animal and plant species threatened by the wall,' Mr Prieto said.

'I have watched many different animals reach the wall before turning around and heading back,'"

Such a good wall...
 

Dropbear

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"We were not designed to be America's 911."

I think this is code word for we need more money.
FEMA are a federal support agency - they bring in the reinforcements to give states responding to emergencies the stuff they need. They aren’t set up to respond to a bunch of national disasters like this and they’ve depleted their supplies of everything - including people. It’s not something that can be fixed quickly by throwing cash at.
 

Dropbear

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Kiwis won’t allow US nukes to dock, so the certainly won’t want their own. It’s really only as a courtesy that they are still in five eyes.
 

Fwiffo

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What the fuck will Canada do with respect to China. Cry like a bitch?
Thanks to the previous Presidency we hold a key political hostage.


And it was. But the pact also incensed France, a longtime ally that felt its Indo-Pacific interests had been torpedoed by the submarine-centered agreement.

Yes. Because after leaving Indochina, it is not like Canada has the most exposure to China.
 

Fwiffo

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"Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas says his department will investigate reports of alleged abuse.

He said the officers were trying to manage the migrants crossing the river."

"I have seen some of the footage. I don't have the full context. I can't imagine what context would make that appropriate. But I don't have additional details and certainly I don't think anyone seeing that footage would think it was acceptable or appropriate."

Is this the 45th presidency? Nope, it's 46th.
 

Fwiffo

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