The SF/AAAC/FNB trainwreck thread

[Floris II]

Fair enough, I could tell he was he was a woke liberal that's why I made an exagerated caricature of him with tattoos and STDs.
I'm not crazy about Stone as a person either, as a dresser I'm partial to him. Allegedly he does promote dressing well in some of his books, and sometimes on YouTube which is a start.
Not crazy about Tucker Carlson either, like Stone they're both entertainers and not to be taken seriously in my opinion.
Yeah I was lazy with the patch madras sports coat postings, it's not a comfortable cloth to wear, and since it's cotton and full of patches it drapes terribly I'd imagine.

 

[Floris II]

Why would anyone want to look like a professional virgin in this day and age?

Here's how you do old guy style:

These old guys are mediocre to sloppy dressers. They're decent considering the deplorable state of dress for most baby boomer men in the Western World, but Sartorially they are not that great.
1st man buttons his coat like an iGent with the bottom button. At his age this is highly disagreeable.
2nd man has a garish tie and scarf combination.
3rd man dresses like a wimp. Standard Italian psuedo well dressed figurehead. More money then taste. Navy longue suit with dark blue polka dot tie is quite simple and tepid without being elegant. Black socks in the second photo appear fogey, even if they're navy, charcoal would have looked better. Unbuttoned DBs look sloppy and are almost always a mistake. Tie is far too long for a DB, it's puddling in his lap whilst seated, very uncouth dresser he is.

 

[some bongo player]

Bongo is a good guy, an adopted son of my home town to boot.

I'm in Nottingham nowadays. I doubt I'll stay in the UK, and if I do I can't imagine ever living in Leicester again. But I certainly had some good moments in my 17 years there. And some terrible ones. Plus plenty of incredible dosas.

He's a woke liberal, offended by everything so you have to tread lightly with pictures of neo-cons. Personally I think Stone is as big a piece of shit as Tucker Carlson but I've only been offended by you for posting patch madras sports coats.

My opinions of Stone, Carlson and patch madras are along similar lines to yours. However it was the posting of shots of professional Holocaust deniers that I consider offensive.

 

[some bongo player]

nor STDs (which at this point in my life I don't but I'm working on it).

I can help with this.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

These old guys are mediocre to sloppy dressers. They're decent considering the deplorable state of dress for most baby boomer men in the Western World, but Sartorially they are not that great.
1st man buttons his coat like an iGent with the bottom button. At his age this is highly disagreeable.
2nd man has a garish tie and scarf combination.
3rd man dresses like a wimp. Standard Italian psuedo well dressed figurehead. More money then taste. Navy longue suit with dark blue polka dot tie is quite simple and tepid without being elegant. Black socks in the second photo appear fogey, even if they're navy, charcoal would have looked better. Unbuttoned DBs look sloppy and are almost always a mistake. Tie is far too long for a DB, it's puddling in his lap whilst seated, very uncouth dresser he is.

I think those are sound observations, Fledgling. For a baby bird you have a keen eye.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

can't imagine ever living in Leicester again

I have only been to Leicester once circa 1971. I let one of Colin Jordan's British Movement pals know what it was like to be kicked in the testicles with a Loake 771 (burgundy).

 

[Grand Potentate]

Fair enough, I could tell he was he was a woke liberal that's why I made an exagerated caricature of him with tattoos and STDs.

Let’s all just take it down a notch shall we? Take a deep breath. They’re just clothes.

 

[Floris II]

I think those are sound observations, Fledgling. For a baby bird you have a keen eye.

Hahahaha

 

[some bongo player]

I have only been to Leicester once circa 1971. I let one of Colin Jordan's British Movement pals know what it was like to be kicked in the testicles with a Loake 771 (burgundy).

Good work.

 

[doghouse]

as a dresser I'm partial to him.

Now I'm offended

 

[Floris II]

Now I'm offended

You can tell stone actually enjoys his clothes when you hear him speak about them. He's not the best dressed man in politics, but he's at least considerably above average.

 

[Sauce]

I have only been to Leicester once circa 1971. I let one of Colin Jordan's British Movement pals know what it was like to be kicked in the testicles with a Loake 771 (burgundy).

From behind I heard and then you ran off in the direction of the train station.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

From behind I heard and then you ran off in the direction of the train station.

No. The BM were marching to protest the arrival of Asians who had been thrown out by Idi Amin. Wish I'd been wearing Sanders Fakenham though.

 

[Dropbear]

The master has spoken.

 

[Sammy Ambrose]

The master has spoken.

View attachment 42600

I haven"t worn striped ties for a few years.
And isn't that 'Look' very school uniformish?

 

[Streetlight]

It's subversive and edgy, for those 'in the know'. Toe-tapping cool cats only grandad.

 

[some bongo player]

The master has spoken.

View attachment 42600

No idea who he is but, just for the record: that will appeal to very few ivy fans. It certainly does nothing for me.

 

[some bongo player]

It's subversive and edgy, for those 'in the know'. Toe-tapping cool cats only grandad.

There's nothing wrong (or difficult) with taking the piss out of ivy, however if that's your goal then take the piss out of ivy, not someone's failed attempt.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

It seems like you don't do your research at all. Go to the library or purchase that book I mentioned for a few dollars if you want a better idea. Alternatively find the book titles 'A History of Mens Fashion' or 'Ivy Style'.

Have all of them, plus the Japanese one's and all the off-beat big band and modern jazz stuff. Haven't got the new Jason Jules one yet.

He was asking why you posted pictures of 2 notorious anti-Semites. For me the conclusion is obvious: you think they're decent chaps and you want to offend and alienate anyone who disagrees.

It is indeed strange, why anyone rational, expecting to be taken seriously, would post such idiots and then disown the photo as I dunno' either.

See your answer proves your total utter lack of knowledge about the emotive quality of the centre piece of the Ivy Look, The Button Down Collar.

Like I said the other day, it's quite limited...

Fair enough, I could tell he was he was a woke liberal that's why I made an exagerated caricature of him with tattoos and STDs.
I'm not crazy about Stone as a person either, as a dresser I'm partial to him. Allegedly he does promote dressing well in some of his books, and sometimes on YouTube which is a start.
Not crazy about Tucker Carlson either, like Stone they're both entertainers and not to be taken seriously in my opinion.
Yeah I was lazy with the patch madras sports coat postings, it's not a comfortable cloth to wear, and since it's cotton and full of patches it drapes terribly I'd imagine.

Don't be lazy with your postings, be dynamic and earth shaking!

But do try and not be too clever by posting holocaust deniers and anti-Semites for whatever subtext was intended. Because that was definitely not random, was it?

While were here, what do you think about black Ivy? Authentic, fake, cultural appropriation or what?

Thanks!

I'm in Nottingham nowadays. I doubt I'll stay in the UK, and if I do I can't imagine ever living in Leicester again. But I certainly had some good moments in my 17 years there. And some terrible ones. Plus plenty of incredible dosas.

I thought you were in South America and not coming back a few months ago?!

Let’s all just take it down a notch shall we? Take a deep breath. They’re just clothes.

It's tribal war in the Babylon!

I haven"t worn striped ties for a few years.
And isn't that 'Look' very school uniformish?

The secret is to sport the American version, with the strip going top down on the wrong side.

 

[Sauce]

The master has spoken.

View attachment 42600

No way this cat would have got into Ronnie Scotts or The Scene back in the day with those pants on. The Fuzz were always trying to gain access to the Soho scene and it was the little giveaways like the rise on these pants that got them the knockback at the clubs. I remember one night at Ronnie's, Jonny Dankworth said to me, "Baby Sauce, we're lucky to have Big Frank on the door here, thankfully he is clued to the max with our scenes look. He's just knocked back some undercover Fuzz looking to get in here and kill the good time vibe, man". That was a big moment for me, Jonny was a real face and for him to call me man when I was barely 4 years old meant he respected me as a scenester. I knew the whole of the Soho grapevine would be buzzing about Jonny and me all weekend. I was accepted by the main man, it felt cool, really cool, like a Miles modulation on his 57 long player, Bag's Groove. Man, what a hit! First Friday night in July, 1960 it was. I remember because I was wearing my new BB green cotton sack coat I'd traded for 10 bombers and an once of best Afgan hash the night before with a GI in the Flamingo. Soho was an odd mix of people back then but everyone knew the Fuzz when they saw them. Bongo is on the ball kids. This guy is a wrong un for sure. Not cool.

 

[Sauce]

Haven't got the new Jason Jules one yet.



While were here, what do you think about black Ivy? Authentic, fake, cultural appropriation or what?

I think I will get Jules new book, I wonder if he mentions the Chicago Gousters? From what I've read Ivy was pretty mainstream for young coloured kids.

Chicago Gousters.

As Ivy League fashion swept the USA in the 50's and 60's small groups of youths formed their own looks and fashions that varied from city to city. One such youth culture was Chicago's Gousters....

rhythmshaker.tumblr.com

 

[Dropbear]

No way this cat would have got into Ronnie Scotts or The Scene back in the day with those pants on. The Fuzz were always trying to gain access to the Soho scene and it was the little giveaways like the rise on these pants that got them the knockback at the clubs. I remember one night at Ronnie's, Jonny Dankworth said to me, "Baby Sauce, we're lucky to have Big Frank on the door here, thankfully he is clued to the max with our scenes look. He's just knocked back some undercover Fuzz looking to get in here and kill the good time vibe, man". That was a big moment for me, Jonny was a real face and for him to call me man when I was barely 4 years old meant he respected me as a scenester. I knew the whole of the Soho grapevine would be buzzing about Jonny and me all weekend. I was accepted by the main man, it felt cool, really cool, like a Miles modulation on his 57 long player, Bag's Groove. Man, what a hit! First Friday night in July, 1960 it was. I remember because I was wearing my new BB green cotton sack coat I'd traded for 10 bombers and an once of best Afgan hash the night before with a GI in the Flamingo. Soho was an odd mix of people back then but everyone knew the Fuzz when they saw them. Bongo is on the ball kids. This guy is a wrong un for sure. Not cool.

This guy seems like a prime example of people who think they understand ivy because they can pair a stripe tie, ocbd and conservative navy blazer.

I don’t pretend to know Jack about ivy, but I do understand it is a little more than just dressing like a New England trust fund kid from the 50s.

 

[Sauce]

I can see the Ivy connection with that image, soft shoulders, that stitching effect on the lapel edge (can't remember the name for that) but the coat will be missing the hook vent and flaps over patch pockets and be darted. Not pure enough for those TI nutters. As far as I'm aware all Cavour coats are side vented. Their coats feature Napoli style details, but not always brandy glass patch pockets. Does Naples even qualify as southern Italy? But I like the look regardless. Bop used to really throw his toys out the pram on TI when I claimed to wear Italian Ivy, really wound him up, which just made me say it more.

 

[some bongo player]

I can see the Ivy connection with that image, soft shoulders, that stitching effect on the lapel edge (can't remember the name for that) but the coat will be missing the hook vent and flaps over patch pockets and be darted. Not pure enough for those TI nutters. As far as I'm aware all Cavour coats are side vented. Their coats feature Napoli style details, but not always brandy glass patch pockets. Does Naples even qualify as southern Italy? But I like the look regardless.

Yeah right. Plenty of us on TI really appreciate French and Italian style, so if it's mixed well with ivy then fine. In the case of the photo above: looks good to me from what I can see. If the details aren't there then it's not purist ivy but that doesn't mean it's necessarily good or bad. In fact years ago that Nazi mod used to post Italian stuff and get compliments. (Until we realised he was a Nazi.)

 

[some bongo player]

I thought you were in South America and not coming back a few months ago?!

I think when I first posted on this forum I had just arrived in Mexico, with plans to stay for a year. However it didn't work out so I'm back in Blighty. Hopefully for no more than a few months.

 

[some bongo player]

The secret is to sport the American version, with the strip going top down on the wrong side.

It's only Brooks that does/did the stripe the wrong way round. I don't mind a repp, whichever way the stripes go, but I'm not sufficiently enamoured to own even one. Foulards are for me the greatest in the tie world, whilst knits and madras also turn me on.

 

[Ciociaro]

I can see the Ivy connection with that image, soft shoulders, that stitching effect on the lapel edge (can't remember the name for that) but the coat will be missing the hook vent and flaps over patch pockets and be darted. Not pure enough for those TI nutters. As far as I'm aware all Cavour coats are side vented. Their coats feature Napoli style details, but not always brandy glass patch pockets. Does Naples even qualify as southern Italy? But I like the look regardless. Bop used to really throw his toys out the pram on TI when I claimed to wear Italian Ivy, really wound him up, which just made me say it more.

Naples is southern Italy by any metric.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

Tucker Carlson grew up a Prepster so I'm not suprised he sports the look. Yes it was maintstream post WW2 in America until around the time of the 70s. In reality the invention of Dacron aka Polyester is part of what ruined menswear and the longue suit forever. The babyboomers began to view the longue suit as "stuffy" due to the fact that it was made up of higher and higher amounts of synthetic fibres in the hopes of creating products that didn't need to be pressed or ironed as often etc. However this resulted in clothes that didn't breath well and were rejected by the Hippy generation. Menswear has never really recovered from this development in synthetic fibres and the "stuffy" connotations still persist today.

The problem of breathability remains today, with all those highly-chemically treated non-iron shirts, particularly from BB's. Like wearing a shirt made out of cardboard with added itch.

Bongo is a good guy, an adopted son of my home town to boot. He just has a strange outlook on clothing. He's a woke liberal, offended by everything so you have to tread lightly with pictures of neo-cons. Personally I think Stone is as big a piece of shit as Tucker Carlson but I've only been offended by you for posting patch madras sports coats.

Stone does have an interesting tattoo of Richard Nixon though.

I think I will get Jules new book, I wonder if he mentions the Chicago Gousters? From what I've read Ivy was pretty mainstream for young coloured kids.

Chicago Gousters.

As Ivy League fashion swept the USA in the 50's and 60's small groups of youths formed their own looks and fashions that varied from city to city. One such youth culture was Chicago's Gousters....

rhythmshaker.tumblr.com

I will be getting it, Jules writing style is very good. Never heard of the Gousters, only the unreleased album by David Bowie with the same name.

It's only Brooks that does/did the stripe the wrong way round. I don't mind a repp, whichever way the stripes go, but I'm not sufficiently enamoured to own even one. Foulards are for me the greatest in the tie world, whilst knits and madras also turn me on.

Have quite a few repp ties, T&A's, BB's and J.Press and still sport them, well not when working from home. Madras I've stopped wearing and I only wore them in the summer. Knitted ties I've gone off, especially plain black and navy which I've J.Press ones. They seem a bit archaic now.

 

[Floris II]

I haven"t worn striped ties for a few years.
And isn't that 'Look' very school uniformish?

Mid grey trousers are more schoolboy-ish.. light grey is more like a CBD version of khaki chinos, but yes asides from the pyjama shirt it is

 

[Floris II]

Have all of them, plus the Japanese one's and all the off-beat big band and modern jazz stuff. Haven't got the new Jason Jules one yet.

So do I minus some of the Japanese ones like Hot Dog press etc. I'm not really into the jazz stuff so I don't have any. Neither do I, I might buy it soon.

It is indeed strange, why anyone rational, expecting to be taken seriously, would post such idiots and then disown the photo as I dunno' either.

I posted the photo because Hoffman was wearing a white shirt, black knit tie and madras sports coat. It was meant to show the Traditional aspect of the shirt and tie combination underneath a coat that was part of the Ivy genre. Never heard of the other man, the photo was mainly posted for the combination and the clothes and the concept of alternative items used in the 'inside out dressing' approach to style.

See your answer proves your total utter lack of knowledge about the emotive quality of the centre piece of the Ivy Look, The Button Down Collar.

Like I said the other day, it's quite limited..

-Again your out of your depth on this one so I'm not even going to bother.

Fair enough, I could tell he was he was a woke liberal that's why I made an exagerated caricature of him with tattoos and STDs.
I'm not crazy about Stone as a person either, as a dresser I'm partial to him. Allegedly he does promote dressing well in some of his books, and sometimes on YouTube which is a start.
Not crazy about Tucker Carlson either, like Stone they're both entertainers and not to be taken seriously in my opinion.
Yeah I was lazy with the patch madras sports coat postings, it's not a comfortable cloth to wear, and since it's cotton and full of patches it drapes terribly I'd imagine.

Don't be lazy with your postings, be dynamic and earth shaking!

But do try and not be too clever by posting holocaust deniers and anti-Semites for whatever subtext was intended. Because that was definitely not random, was it?

While were here, what do you think about black Ivy? Authentic, fake, cultural appropriation or what?

Thanks!

-Fair enough, I'll keep the clothes post strictly clothes related from now on.

Loaded question, I haven't studied the minutia of it but I imagine it's almost exactly the same just with different haircuts. The same formulas of clothing and accessory combinations, I think the media hampers the growth of the genre within said community but if anything I think it adds gravitas to the wearer of any background so I only see it as a good thing.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

Loaded question, I haven't studied the minutia of it but I imagine it's almost exactly the same just with different haircuts. The same formulas of clothing and accessory combinations, I think the media hampers the growth of the genre within said community but if anything I think it adds gravitas to the wearer of any background so I only see it as a good thing.

Agree that dressing well can give gravitas and if you have the confidence, panache and finesse. But these are qualities not best valued in these strange street wear days and nights.

 

[Floris II]

Agree that dressing well can give gravitas and if you have the confidence, panache and finesse. But these are qualities not best valued in these strange street wear days and nights.

Agreed. It's sad as it opens so many doors and people shun it for streetwear. The culture of dressing well is not in a healthy state.
Most menswear haberdasheries hire young 'sexy' sales staff who have no knowledge of whats going on. They don't do their history, or understand the design of clothes and shoes or how to finesse them, and instead sell the idea of sexiness.. Most are glorified baristas or hipsters.

 

[Sauce]

Naples is southern Italy by any metric.

I'll take your word for it. I've been there three times as well. Though to be fair I wasn't driving.

 

[Sauce]

Most menswear haberdasheries hire young 'sexy' sales staff who have no knowledge of whats going on.

Whats the money like. Interested...

 

[Sauce]

Yeah right. Plenty of us on TI really appreciate French and Italian style, so if it's mixed well with ivy then fine. In the case of the photo above: looks good to me from what I can see. If the details aren't there then it's not purist ivy but that doesn't mean it's necessarily good or bad. In fact years ago that Nazi mod used to post Italian stuff and get compliments. (Until we realised he was a Nazi.)

That place was full of cranks at one point. Everyone knows it. There was uproar once because I posted a link to Berg&Berg silk knits, some people lost their minds because their ties weren't 50p and second hand, one bloke couldn't believe anyone would wear a knit tie made from silk. Knit ties should be wool was his mantra. A lot of guys on there were purists, you know it.

 

[some bongo player]

Trying to find a knit tie not made from silk was a challenge for me before I started buying online. Not that I dislike silk ties - quite the opposite - but no matter what brand I wore, the knot on a silk knit would always slip loose. Used to drive me mad. That's my only issue with silk knit ties.

That place was full of cranks at one point. Everyone knows it. There was uproar once because I posted a link to Berg&Berg silk knits, some people lost their minds because their ties weren't 50p and second hand, one bloke couldn't believe anyone would wear a knit tie made from silk. Knit ties should be wool was his mantra. A lot of guys on there were purists, you know it.

I have purist tendencies in what I actually buy and wear, but that doesn't preclude me from appreciating non-purist stuff on others. As for what went on at one point: who cares? I don't even recall the uproar mentioned above. Or uproar about anything else. Maybe I was on sabbatical.

 

[doghouse]

I don't even recall the uproar mentioned above. Or uproar about anything else. Maybe I was on sabbatical.

C'mon Yuca, there's always an uproar over something over there. It's seems to have gotten worse as the even keeled guys I used to love exchanges back in the day with are all gone.

 

[fxh]

That place was full of cranks at one point. Everyone knows it. There was uproar once because I posted a link to Berg&Berg silk knits, some people lost their minds because their ties weren't 50p and second hand, one bloke couldn't believe anyone would wear a knit tie made from silk. Knit ties should be wool was his mantra. A lot of guys on there were purists, you know it.

WTF? You sure - Nearly all my knits are silk.

 

[fxh]

C'mon Yuca, there's always an uproar over something over there. It's seems to have gotten worse as the even keeled guys I used to love exchanges back in the day with are all gone.

fxh = even keeled

Doggie nautical references.

 

[Dropbear]

fxh = even keeled

Doggie nautical references.

fxh = winged keel (Australia II reference)