A Futile and Stupid Gesture: The History of the First Trump Presidency & Q-Anon

[InstaHate]

Proof CNN is part of a liberal conspiracy to replace Jesus with sharia law:

 

[fxh]

 

[Grand Potentate]

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/0...-intelligence-to-sabotage-trump-policies.html

Obama Ordered Abuse Of Intelligence To Sabotage Trump Policies
In its last months the Obama administration ordered the intelligence agencies to collect and distribute information of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia. This to prevent any change by the Trump administration of the hostile policy towards Russia that the Obama administration instituted. The intent was also to give the intelligence services blackmail material against the Trump crew to prevent any changes in their undue, freewheeling independence.

The above is reported in a little discussed New York Times piece published yesterday. The reporting angle captured in the headline is biased to set the Obama efforts into a positive light: Obama Administration Rushed to Preserve Intelligence of Russian Election Hacking.

Make no mistake by straight-reading that headline. Not single shred of evidence has been provided that "Russia hacked the election" or had anything to do with various leaks of Clinton related emails. A lot of fluff and chaff was thrown around but not even one tiny bit of evidence.

The Obama effort was clearly to sabotage the announced policy of the incoming administration of seeking better relations with Russia. Obama intended to undermine the will of the voters by abusing instruments of the state.

Excerpts from the piece:

In the Obama administration’s last days, some White House officials scrambled to spread information about ... possible contacts between associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump and Russians — across the government. Former American officials say they had two aims: to ensure that such meddling isn’t duplicated in future American or European elections, and to leave a clear trail of intelligence for government investigators.
It is completely normal for any campaign, and especially an incoming administration, to have contacts with foreign government officials.

opined:

Need to recognize this for what it is. The incumbent president used SkyNet to try to rig election and as blackmail tool on his successor
Building on the illegal moves of the Cheney administration Obama installed and empowered the intelligence instruments and the precedence for such manipulations. Not since the worst days of J. Edgar Hoover has the U.S. seen such an interior assault on politicians and policies.

Trump now hired some partisan Russia expert from the Clinton aligned Brookings to run Russia policy in the NSC. She will institute anti-Russian bias in his policies. This would not have happened under a national security advisor Flynn. For now the Obama assault on Trump's announced policy has succeeded. Those who voted for Trump for a change in Russia policies have been disenfranchised.

I do not prefer Trump policies. Flynn was a maniac and Session is a crazy fossil. But that does not justify this anti-democratic abuse of the foreign policy instruments of the state against the political opponents within the country.

Obama created these tools and now left them for the Trump administration to use. They will come back to haunt the Democrats. What will they say and do when the Trump administration will use these against them?

 

[Lord Buckley]

When does the plague of locusts arrive... ?

The tenor of some of these links you could be forgiven for thinking that the Americans had voted Beelzebub into office.

It's all getting so fucking tiresome.

They're going to have to move on from the Hitler jibes and go with something more accurate: the Fifth Horseman of The Apocalypse might just work.

Fake news, anyone??? Talk about an evidence-free article.

The irony is so thick, you could cut it with a knife.

Neither the President, nor the White House, can ask for anyone to be wire-tapped. That decision, as I understand it, is made by the Dept of Justice/FBI etc, who must then ask for the request to be approved by a judge.

It looks as though Trump has been busily tweeting accusations against Obama based on the Breitbart article - good to see that he gets his intelligence from Breitbart and right-wing radio commentators, instead of from public servants who work in the actual intelligence community.

Well, there's one alleged intelligence community forum member who says they are actively working against Trump and with all the leaks.....

Trump needs to find out who's working for who in these intelligence services. And the wiretaps (if proven) legal, or illegal? Or what moves the Obama administration tried and failed, or actually did make against the other Republican presidential candidate. In the news here in the Netherlands, the intelligence community has boasted both the Dutch and the Brits were actively spying on Trump's team in the run-up to the election and handing over information and dossiers to the American IC. We already know one of those dossiers is full of lies and smears.

We shall see how this story develops.....

Proof CNN is part of a liberal conspiracy to replace Jesus with sharia law:
View attachment 21200

On the current trajectory the West is going to surrender our critical thinking and the only cognitive thoughts on Mohammed will be that he was Holiest man whoever lived and whose every word and action was correct, being the divine will of God.

We are in a very dangerous place: language is being proscribed to shut-down debate and thought.

 

[QuandoDio]

We are in a very dangerous place: language is being proscribed to shut-down debate and thought.

Har har har

 

[Scherensammler]

We are in a very dangerous place: language is being proscribed to shut-down debate and thought.

Har har har

Right:

http://zenmyass.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/rule-165-eu-manipulation-and-censorship.html

In other, controlled media articles, this story is spun as if the EU is protecting it's citizens from racism and hate speeches in general, but in reality this is massive censorship, as anything that goes against the EU narrative can be deleted. Next step will be to just switch off the microphones of more critical MEP's.

 

[Journeyman]

Trump needs to find out who's working for who in these intelligence services. And the wiretaps (if proven) legal, or illegal?

So, on the one hand, the Obama administration couldn't stop the FBI from investigating the administration's preferred candidate over her use of a private e-mail server.

On the other hand, the Obama administration was able to order the FBI or similar intelligence services to illegally investigate Republican candidates.

We are in a very dangerous place: language is being proscribed to shut-down debate and thought.

I think that you'll find that it's the Trump administration that is trying to shut down debate and thought - anything critical of the administration is described as "fake" and any media institution that carries such "fake news" is excluded from media briefings.

 

[formby]

We did.


If it's tiresome there is a quite rare and special remedy. It's called don't fucking click on the thread.

I'm referring to the content of the links. It's the same in Britain, some are borderline hysterical. What is wrong with these people.

As for Trump, I'm afraid you've got to suck it up. He was democratically elected.

I remember Reagan getting voted in the first time...

 

[Scherensammler]

I think that you'll find that it's the Trump administration that is trying to shut down debate and thought - anything critical of the administration is described as "fake" and any media institution that carries such "fake news" is excluded from media briefings.

Why would you invite the people that talked smack about you from day one to your house?

Obama will be back:

 

[doghouse]

I'm referring to the content of the links. It's the same in Britain, some are borderline hysterical. What is wrong with these people.

As for Trump, I'm afraid you've got to suck it up. He was democratically elected.

I remember Reagan getting voted in the first time...

Quite. And I'll spend the next four years, or hopefully less, pointing out all the idiocy that is going to ensue.

Reagan is one of our top five greatest presidents, because he knew that 1) The President isn't for making any actual decisions and 2) He is there to be an uplifting cultural touchstone to unite the populace. Basically the opposite of our current sack of orange monkey shit.

 

[doghouse]

On the current trajectory the West is going to surrender our critical thinking .

Oh man the irony of this on a thread where people think Obama illegally wiretapped Trump.

We are in a very dangerous place: language is being proscribed to shut-down debate and thought.

Then why do you cheerlead an administration actively doing just that?

 

[doghouse]

Lol.

 

[Lord Buckley]

Why would you invite the people that talked smack about you from day one to your house?

Indeed: the media is openly hostile and have long since moved into the realm of being mere paid propagandists. Combined with the number of hacks who have agitated for the assassination of Trump on both sides of the pond, it seems a logical move and sensible to freeze this enemy out. I would and Obama has done it to Fox News. And also puts McCain comments into light, for if he was a fascist dictator, he would already move and have these journalists rounded-up and shot.

He's freezing them out as the legacy media is no longer to be trusted, or necessary to get the message out.

The BBC was getting desperate this last week with news reports that Trump won because his name was first on the ballot paper in critical states i.e. the deplorables are too stupid to vote. Then they went to attack his female family members as "fake feminists".

They can keep on blaming everyone but themselves and the message to the Left is the same everywhere: you've lost the working classes and your focus on special interest groups and virtue signalling is your doom.

 

[Lord Buckley]

Basically the opposite of our current sack of orange monkey shit.

That's the problem. The above is not an effective refute is it?

I don't see any real argument from the Democrats, or the Left in the UK. It all ends in swear words, comparisons to Hitler or Putin conspiracy theories. For there is no effective antidote to a democratically elected President (or Brexit for that matter) who is implementing his policies and mandate, which remains utterly agreeable to those that elected him.

I think it's going to be great!

 

[Grand Potentate]

Reagan is one of our top five greatest presidents, because he knew that 1) The President isn't for making any actual decisions and 2) He is there to be an uplifting cultural touchstone to unite the populace. Basically the opposite of our current sack of orange monkey shit.

This is Ronald Regan we're talking about, right? Iran Contra regan? Gas lines Reagan? Wrecked the economy with his trickle down economics Reagan? There wasn't some other president Reagan back in the 1800's that I'm forgetting?

 

[doghouse]

This is Ronald Regan we're talking about, right? Iran Contra regan? Gas lines Reagan? Wrecked the economy with his trickle down economics Reagan? There wasn't some other president Reagan back in the 1800's that I'm forgetting?

Only on Earth 2, which apparently is the location of all the blogs you link, did Reagan wreck the economy. What he did after Carter literally wrecked the economy is one of the biggest miracles of all time. You seriously have zero idea how fucked up this country was in 1980 if you have any notions otherwise.

 

[doghouse]

That's the problem. The above is not an effective refute is it?

I don't see any real argument from the Democrats, or the Left in the UK. It all ends in swear words, comparisons to Hitler or Putin conspiracy theories. For there is no effective antidote to a democratically elected President (or Brexit for that matter) who is implementing his policies and mandate, which remains utterly agreeable to those that elected him.

I think it's going to be great!

Refute of what? That he isn't a chimpanzee?

He doesn't have a mandate, fortunately. He lost the popular vote and has made one unforced error after another since he got in office which means he really hasn't implemented any agenda whatsoever so far. He has to work with Congress but keeps tripping over his dick there too, he isn't allowed to write laws you know.

His supporters didn't elect him, the middle 10% of the electorate in very select areas did, so it's not in his interests to keep up what he is doing.

 

[formby]

Quite. And I'll spend the next four years, or hopefully less, pointing out all the idiocy that is going to ensue.

Reagan is one of our top five greatest presidents, because he knew that 1) The President isn't for making any actual decisions and 2) He is there to be an uplifting cultural touchstone to unite the populace. Basically the opposite of our current sack of orange monkey shit.

My point about Reagan is that he faced opprobrium when he was elected...the Bedtime for Bonzo references...that he was an actor...that he was senile....There was British satirical puppet show called Spitting Image that had a field day with Reagan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FaH7ATXkWg

 

[doghouse]

My point about Reagan is that he faced opprobrium when he was elected...the Bedtime for Bonzo references...that he was an actor...that he was senile....There was British satirical puppet show called Spitting Image that had a field day with Reagan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FaH7ATXkWg

I'm well aware. But I've seen enough of your thoughts over the years to know you have the critical thinking facilities to see that Reagan was an inherently optimistic unifying leader, whereas our current shit bag is the antithesis.

Reagan's electoral victory will never be matched again, what he did was unfathomable.

 

[doghouse]

On a lighter note, Roger Stone good for some high comedy last night.

 

[InstaHate]

Refute of what? That he isn't a chimpanzee?

He doesn't have a mandate, fortunately. He lost the popular vote and has made one unforced error after another since he got in office which means he really hasn't implemented any agenda whatsoever so far. He has to work with Congress but keeps tripping over his dick there too, he isn't allowed to write laws you know.

His supporters didn't elect him, the middle 10% of the electorate in very select areas did, so it's not in his interests to keep up what he is doing.

He only lost the popular vote due to illegal immigrants illegally voting since they are lawbreaker criminal types.

And those "errors" are just the imaginative machinations of globalist media and Obama acolytes operating in the shadows. They'll be flushed out one by one and squashed like the vermin they are.

#maga

 

[Grand Potentate]

Only on Earth 2, which apparently is the location of all the blogs you link, did Reagan wreck the economy. What he did after Carter literally wrecked the economy is one of the biggest miracles of all time. You seriously have zero idea how fucked up this country was in 1980 if you have any notions otherwise.

i do not because i was just getting shot out of the chute. but i will say finding out you're a reagan fan is one of the most shocking discoveries i've come across in quite some time.

 

[InstaHate]

Reagan, like Clinton, did a great job not fucking up a good thing. The USSR was collapsing and Reagan didn't do anything to fuck that up. Clinton was president during the tech fueled growth of the 90s and managed not to fuck that up.

I'm demand-side, so trickle down economics gets an arched eyebrow from me.

 

[formby]

I'm well aware. But I've seen enough of your thoughts over the years to know you have the critical thinking facilities to see that Reagan was an inherently optimistic unifying leader, whereas our current shit bag is the antithesis.

Reagan's electoral victory will never be matched again, what he did was unfathomable.

Well, they may be retrospective judgements. In office both Reagan and Thatcher got a hell of a bashing. Thatcher more than Reagan probably because she was a woman. She also lacked Reagan's roguish charm.

 

[doghouse]

i do not because i was just getting shot out of the chute. but i will say finding out you're a reagan fan is one of the most shocking discoveries i've come across in quite some time.

See what InstaHate has scribbled below. Reagan was the perfect man for the situation. There's tons I think he did wrong, like the war on drugs, his handling of South Africa, etc. Any activist president would have crashed the plane as we had two engines sputtering and some flaps missing. We needed to glide for awhile with some feel good platitudes. If 2017 America had 20% interest rates and you could only get gas on certain days of the week, there'd be a damn civil war with all these fucking pansies.

Plus Reagan wasn't nearly as trickle down as people want to believe. This is a guy who raised taxes. His economic arc was completed by Bush, and Clinton reaped all the good press. As noted, Clinton knew not to fuck it up.

Reagan, like Clinton, did a great job not fucking up a good thing. The USSR was collapsing and Reagan didn't do anything to fuck that up. Clinton was president during the tech fueled growth of the 90s and managed not to fuck that up.

I'm demand-side, so trickle down economics gets an arched eyebrow from me.

Well, they may be retrospective judgements. In office both Reagan and Thatcher got a hell of a bashing. Thatcher more than Reagan probably because she was a woman. She also lacked Reagan's roguish charm.

I think the Thatcher bit is probably true, but any barely sentient creature knows that Reagan was hopeful and Trump apocalyptic in their outlook and discourse.

 

[Journeyman]

...but any barely sentient creature knows that Reagan was hopeful and Trump apocalyptic in their outlook and discourse.

Reagan's first campaign slogan wasn't so optimistic - it was something like "Are you better off than you were four years ago?"

However, when he was running for re-election, his slogan was the much more upbeat, optimistic "It's Springtime in America" or "It's Morning Again in America" or something like that.

Edited to add: I think that it was "morning" rather than "springtime" - I'm getting confused with The Producers!

 

[Lord Buckley]

Refute of what? That he isn't a chimpanzee?

He doesn't have a mandate, fortunately. He lost the popular vote and has made one unforced error after another since he got in office which means he really hasn't implemented any agenda whatsoever so far. He has to work with Congress but keeps tripping over his dick there too, he isn't allowed to write laws you know.

His supporters didn't elect him, the middle 10% of the electorate in very select areas did, so it's not in his interests to keep up what he is doing.

By the rules of the game with the electorate colleges he won. It strikes me as sour grapes to claim otherwise.

I don't see, the same as with the Left in the UK, any self-reflection on why the party failed. It's all someone else's fault.

The fact is Hillary lost to a rank amateur. Spitting the dummy out and blaming it on 10% of the vote in selected areas, is not going to address the reality.

Trump is the consequence of abandoning the working classes, the so called basket of deplorables in favour of gender neutral toilets and safe space politics. Brexit was the consequence of ignoring the working class in favour of gimmicky focus groups and that immigration no matter was is always positive which it is not for the lower working class and for public services.

Until such time that these parties gain some self-reflection on why they failed the wilderness is for them. And I see this now with the Labour, yes they're getting ready to ditch Corbyn, but the unpopular policies remain.

 

[doghouse]

By the rules of the game with the electorate colleges he won. It strikes me as sour grapes to claim otherwise.

I seriously can't keep up with all of your non-sequiturs, please respond to an actual statement by someone here for a change. I haven't seen anyone other than Trump himself with his millions of imaginary fraudulent votes "claim otherwise". I know I haven't. I will point out he lost the vote by 3 million people though, ergo the majority of this country is against him, which is apparently driving him cuckoo. Thus, he has no mandate either, which has been clearly displayed by his stunning lack of accomplishing anything substantive yet even though he has all branches of government. Obama managed to pass a three quarters of a trillion dollar fiscal package by this time.

"The Left", by and large, is mentally retarded. I'm not sure if you are lumping me with them or not, but I'm clearly not a Democrat. There are Democrats I respect, and have voted for, like Mark Warner, but there are plenty of idiots like Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi. At least you admit to being a Labour voter. Though it reminds me of the people who trumpet they voted Obama twice so they aren't derided for voting Trump. I mean, you were stupid three times in a row. Congrats, I guess?

I'm clearly on record here as being in favor of a guaranteed minimum income, and I agree we have failed the factory drones. We gave them no skills to transition to the post industrial economy. But that isn't "the working class" as a group, which I always get a chuckle when an oil and gas management type instructs me the lifelong construction worker about "the working class", and the issue isn't completely economic, rather quite cultural. We are turning into gutter trash at an alarming rate, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Muslims or trannys or any of that. It has to do with chain restaurants and professional wrestling and Monster Energy Drinks and the Kardashians. We just elected a reality show star, which is like hitting the accelerator on our decline.

 

[InstaHate]

I seriously can't keep up with all of your non-sequiturs, please respond to an actual statement by someone here for a change. I haven't seen anyone other than Trump himself with his millions of imaginary fraudulent votes "claim otherwise". I know I haven't. I will point out he lost the vote by 3 million people though, ergo the majority of this country is against him, which is apparently driving him cuckoo. Thus, he has no mandate either, which has been clearly displayed by his stunning lack of accomplishing anything substantive yet even though he has all branches of government. Obama managed to pass a three quarters of a trillion dollar fiscal package by this time.

"The Left", by and large, is mentally retarded. I'm not sure if you are lumping me with them or not, but I'm clearly not a Democrat. There are Democrats I respect, and have voted for, like Mark Warner, but there are plenty of idiots like Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi. At least you admit to being a Labour voter. Though it reminds me of the people who trumpet they voted Obama twice so they aren't derided for voting Trump. I mean, you were stupid three times in a row. Congrats, I guess?

I'm clearly on record here as being in favor of a guaranteed minimum income, and I agree we have failed the factory drones. We gave them no skills to transition to the post industrial economy. But that isn't "the working class" as a group, which I always get a chuckle when an oil and gas management type instructs me the lifelong construction worker about "the working class", and the issue isn't completely economic, rather quite cultural. We are turning into gutter trash at an alarming rate, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Muslims or trannys or any of that. It has to do with chain restaurants and professional wrestling and Monster Energy Drinks and the Kardashians. We just elected a reality show star, which is like hitting the accelerator on our decline.

cash me ousside

 

[Lord Buckley]

I seriously can't keep up with all of your non-sequiturs, please respond to an actual statement by someone here for a change. I haven't seen anyone other than Trump himself with his millions of imaginary fraudulent votes "claim otherwise". I know I haven't. I will point out he lost the vote by 3 million people though, ergo the majority of this country is against him, which is apparently driving him cuckoo. Thus, he has no mandate either, which has been clearly displayed by his stunning lack of accomplishing anything substantive yet even though he has all branches of government. Obama managed to pass a three quarters of a trillion dollar fiscal package by this time.

"The Left", by and large, is mentally retarded. I'm not sure if you are lumping me with them or not, but I'm clearly not a Democrat. There are Democrats I respect, and have voted for, like Mark Warner, but there are plenty of idiots like Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi. At least you admit to being a Labour voter. Though it reminds me of the people who trumpet they voted Obama twice so they aren't derided for voting Trump. I mean, you were stupid three times in a row. Congrats, I guess?

I'm clearly on record here as being in favor of a guaranteed minimum income, and I agree we have failed the factory drones. We gave them no skills to transition to the post industrial economy. But that isn't "the working class" as a group, which I always get a chuckle when an oil and gas management type instructs me the lifelong construction worker about "the working class", and the issue isn't completely economic, rather quite cultural. We are turning into gutter trash at an alarming rate, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Muslims or trannys or any of that. It has to do with chain restaurants and professional wrestling and Monster Energy Drinks and the Kardashians. We just elected a reality show star, which is like hitting the accelerator on our decline.

He didn't lose at all, he won the election by the rules of the game. Fact. Democratically elected. Fact.

I wasn't lecturing you on the working class. I said, and this is across Europe as well with perhaps one or two exceptions, a failure of the Left and they have lost their traditional working class vote. Trump has taken this vote and May is now cuddling-up to the working class in the UK.

I regard the traditional working class as a decent bunch. Unlike the middle class SJW's and the metropolitan political class spinning about wealth redistribution, the working class as I understand them want opportunity. I think that goes for both side of the Atlantic. I have a higher opinion of the working class than many of the so called middle class being churned out of the modern higher education system.

Professional wrestling is good fun to watch, I don't see anything morally degenerate in it.

You elected a reality show star and businessman who also happens to not be Hillary Clinton. You also elected a B movie star and that turned out pretty good too.

As an outsider, that's my verdict on the USA's predicament.

 

[doghouse]

He didn't lose at all, he won the election by the rules of the game. Fact. Democratically elected. Fact.

I wasn't lecturing you on the working class. I said, and this is across Europe as well with perhaps one or two exceptions, a failure of the Left and they have lost their traditional working class vote. Trump has taken this vote and May is now cuddling-up to the working class in the UK.

I regard the traditional working class as a decent bunch. Unlike the middle class SJW's and the metropolitan political class spinning about wealth redistribution, the working class as I understand them want opportunity. I think that goes for both side of the Atlantic. I have a higher opinion of the working class than many of the so called middle class being churned out of the modern higher education system.

Professional wrestling is good fun to watch, I don't see anything morally degenerate in it.

You elected a reality show star and businessman who also happens to not be Hillary Clinton. You also elected a B movie star and that turned out pretty good too.

As an outsider, that's my verdict on the USA's predicament.

Again, show where I said he didn't win? He did lose the popular vote, that is a fact. The popular vote doesn't determine our president, also a fact. More people in this country voted for his main opponent, also a fact. These are all facts. I don't see anyone saying he isn't the elected president? Because of the U.S. system, you can be president without the majority of the country voting for you, or even wanting you to exist, that's just how it is. Then the job becomes bring those opposed to you to your side and serve the entire populace, which by any objective measure he is failing woefully. He is President, not dictator, which seems to be getting him quite upset as of late.

Good to see you going all SJW for the working man. Leaving aside the fact that your generalizations are as terrible as your nemesis, the upper middle SJW protecting the negro and the Arab. The working classes are an aggregate of individuals no different than any other grouping you wish to invent. And there huge swathes mislabeled like overpaid anachronistic factory workers that are in fact middle class, but act like they aren't. The middle class gave us Donald J. Trump, not the working class, which is probably one of your biggest misunderstandings about what is happening in America. The only income bracket Hillary won was under 50,000 per annum, ie. the working folks.

 

[Lord Buckley]

Hang on: at first you blamed the working class for Trump, now you blame the middle class, which one is it?

Are these "anachronistic factory" workers worthy of a middle class status or not? Is their culture so debased they should get paid a pittance and bow and nod their head to the big boss man because in Bangladesh their equivalents are indentured and living on less than fifty pence a day?

I hear a lot from the Left about those so called dying industries and they have zero compassion for them, exactly the same as Thatcher was accused of. The Left is bereft of humanity, they love it from afar, but can't stand it close up.

Again, Trump is the consequence not the source of what ails America.

 

[doghouse]

Hang on: at first you blamed the working class for Trump, now you blame the middle class, which one is it?

I blamed the mouth breathers, not the actual working class.

Are these "anachronistic factory" workers worthy of a middle class status or not?

No.

Is their culture so debased they should get paid a pittance and bow and nod their head to the big boss man because in Bangladesh their equivalents are indentured and living on less than fifty pence a day?

Yes.

I hear a lot from the Left about those so called dying industries and they have zero compassion for them, exactly the same as Thatcher was accused of.

You should hear it from any rational being. These industries must be eradicated post haste.

The Left is bereft of humanity, they love it from afar, but can't stand it close up.

This is equally applicable to the Left and the Right. The center actually cares for humanity.

Again, Trump is the consequence not the source of what ails America.

We are in complete agreement.

 

[Grand Potentate]

I know I haven't. I will point out he lost the vote by 3 million people though, ergo the majority of this country is against him, which is apparently driving him cuckoo.

this is factually incorrect. without california trump would have won the popular vote.

 

[Monkeyface]

this is factually incorrect. without california trump would have won the popular vote.

California matters!

 

[Lord Buckley]

I blamed the mouth breathers, not the actual working class.



No.




Yes.



You should hear it from any rational being. These industries must be eradicated post haste.



This is equally applicable to the Left and the Right. The center actually cares for humanity.



We are in complete agreement.

We're not quite in agreement, but we're getting there....

You admit, as a globalist, there should be no difference between the price of labour either in say, Houston or Mumbai. And if there is inequality, it should go to the lowest common denominator, regardless of the cost of living? That is your argument. And if there is a difference in cost of living, the current process will eventually eradicate that by sheer market forces i.e. rewarding the cost effective, the expensive labour will ultimately become cheaper and also the cost of living in these places, or the labour will become mobile to more cheaper places to work and live. Either way, the lowest standard of living wins, but ultimately this will become only relative, as real poverty is erased.

Sounds good...

And you agree this goes for all labour: blue, white collar and the professions?

You also add dying industries: are these industries truly dying through automation or just being shifted to the developing and third world?

In my own experience and I have no real experience of factory work, only bespoke fabrication and manufacturing to the oil & gas, power generation, marine and renewable industries which is generally executed by highly trained engineering technicians, time served apprentices, craft and tradesman i.e. the elite of the working class. Historically they have earned decent middle class wages.

But when I first went to work in a developing nation and this has been repeated in my extensive experience across the globe, is that the most modern manufacturing facilities have been found in Germany, Italy and then the developing world. The UK, France and even the Netherlands have equipment that is not as modern as what can be found in places such as Brazil, South Africa and India. The difference is, the work processes, the work ethic and efficiency is much higher and to a better quality in the western nations. You might get 3-6 workers in Brazil or India (and I have examples of much more) carrying out what one person does in the UK.

My argument is this: when you use the cheapness of labour in the developing world, which also include the cost-effectiveness of setting-up new facilities compared to the west, this may be hiding awful inefficiencies, which when equalled, will make your decision a bad one as the most highly skilled and efficient/effective work force was where you relocated your facility from.

Edit (my point was): the Trump world view recognises this, I dig it, as do many Americans. And also Europe. We have reached a fork in the road as regards the future of humanity and dare I say, civilization.

 

[Lord Buckley]

California matters!

You can check out, but never leave....much like the EU.

 

[Grand Potentate]

California matters!

Now that you're going there it doesn't!

 

[doghouse]

this is factually incorrect. without california trump would have won the popular vote.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this.

 

[Leitmotif]

I'm not even sure how to respond to this.

Come on, I believe in you! I HAVE FAITH