Adventures in Bespoke Tailoring

[Journeyman]

The trousers are a bespoke copy of 30's "Capri" trousers some guy called Soctt Fraser copied for his collection:

I really like the trousers and the slouchy, relaxed jacket - great for relaxing while reading the morning paper and having a coffee, or going to the beach.

I must admit, though, that I'd prefer a pair of plain canvas espadrilles rather than the spotted shoes.

 

[belinmad]

I really like the trousers and the slouchy, relaxed jacket - great for relaxing while reading the morning paper and having a coffee, or going to the beach.

Thanks, much appreciate it. And thanks for catching the mood - that's the exact intent we put on these trousers when we discussed them with my tailor. Considering I'm holed up in a villa in Puglia, alternating between beach and pool, I don't feel I need much more formality than this.

I must admit, though, that I'd prefer a pair of plain canvas espadrilles rather than the spotted shoes.

I don't disagree - but they are super comfortable, and I wear them to walk around the property with the dogs, or just stroll around. I don't have espadrilles at hand, currently, and not planning on attending a black tie event in them anytime soon.

 

[Lobbster]

Thanks a lot belinmad. As a fellow larger guy I sympathize with our choices. It's always interesting to see how tailors work with bigger guys. How did you decide on the tailors?

 

[belinmad]

Thanks a lot belinmad. As a fellow larger guy I sympathize with our choices. It's always interesting to see how tailors work with bigger guys. How did you decide on the tailors?

In London I didn't find most SR tailors accommodating to my figure or what I wanted, with the exception of John Kent, who is great but on the expensive side (or at par with the rest of the SR folks, really). Ultimately, I chose Dan Macangus from Macangus and Wainwright, who is very technical and detail oriented, open minded and studious. He modified a lot of his "ways" to accomodate my figure (most particularly the inner waist darts on the coat, and the shape of the seat of the trousers, as well as the pleats). Dan in my main guy

John Kent, London

Dan Macangus, London

Dan Macangus, London

Dan Macangus, London

In Madrid I work with Joaquin Fernandez Prats whom I find equally skilled and accommodating.

Fernandez Prats, Madrid

Here in Southern Italy I'm still exploring, but overall I find the Neapolitan and Sicilian tailors to have a very strong understanding of "non standard" body figures.

Sartoria Crimi, Palermo

Finally, Frank Shattuck, while very controversial in every single forum I've been to, has a pretty strong eye for big/non-standard figures.

Frank Shattuck, NY

 

[ASSHAT]

In London I didn't find most SR tailors accommodating to my figure or what I wanted, with the exception of John Kent, who is great but on the expensive side (or at par with the rest of the SR folks, really). Ultimately, I chose Dan Macangus from Macangus and Wainwright, who is very technical and detail oriented, open minded and studious. He modified a lot of his "ways" to accomodate my figure (most particularly the inner waist darts on the coat, and the shape of the seat of the trousers, as well as the pleats). Dan in my main guy

John Kent, London

Dan Macangus, London

Dan Macangus, London

Dan Macangus, London

In Madrid I work with Joaquin Fernandez Prats whom I find equally skilled and accommodating.

Fernandez Prats, Madrid

Here in Southern Italy I'm still exploring, but overall I find the Neapolitan and Sicilian tailors to have a very strong understanding of "non standard" body figures.

Sartoria Crimi, Palermo

Finally, Frank Shattuck, while very controversial in every single forum I've been to, has a pretty strong eye for big/non-standard figures.

Frank Shattuck, NY

I think Sicilian tailors have a lot more experience with non standard body types, there is even one whose website and insta show several pictures of dwarfs, other handicapped people, children and local farmer types in the clothes. Granted the work is pretty mediocre but it is also cheaper than most decent RTW. Still a part of the culture over there that everyone, even the farmers, gets a suit made for Sunday church or at the least a wedding.

I noticed your dress shoes on the insta as well, they seem very unusual and not classically stylish in that they all lack a heel. Do you mind explaining the shoes a bit? Maybe posting a better photo of them? Thanks.

 

[doghouse]

Still a part of the culture over there that everyone, even the farmers, gets a suit made for Sunday church or at the least a wedding.

Stop, you are making me all teary eyed thinking about how it should be everywhere.

 

[ASSHAT]

It takes one to get one.

The trousers are a bespoke copy of 30's "Capri" trousers some guy called Soctt Fraser copied for his collection: https://scottfrasercollection.com/product/gaucho-trousers

We made the legs wider for fun and comfort.
No regrets, no apologies, gentlemen.

I think you should have gotten pleats on yours like the Scott Fraser pants. I think it would only add to the appearance of comfort and volume and also breakup for the eye the mass of cloth you have spread over your belly. I actually think high wasted pants with pleats look much better on portly figures, than flat fronts worn below the belly. On some of your suits I also see flat fronts and thinks pleats and a higher waist would improve the look overall.

 

[belinmad]

I think Sicilian tailors have a lot more experience with non standard body types, there is even one whose website and insta show several pictures of dwarfs, other handicapped people, children and local farmer types in the clothes. Granted the work is pretty mediocre but it is also cheaper than most decent RTW. Still a part of the culture over there that everyone, even the farmers, gets a suit made for Sunday church or at the least a wedding.

It is definitely much more common to run into the "local neighbourhood tailor shop" than in other European cities (and definitely much more than the US), with options that are pretty accessible (think 600-800 euro for MTM). In that range, the work quality is not amazing.

Now, if you go to the higher end, both Neapolitan and Sicilian tailors are at least 50-70% cheaper than London ones, with a quality that is at the same level, and in some cases even better than SR ones. Milan and Paris are as expensive as London.

I noticed your dress shoes on the insta as well, they seem very unusual and not classically stylish in that they all lack a heel. Do you mind explaining the shoes a bit? Maybe posting a better photo of them? Thanks.

I had back problems up until 2-3 years ago, when I adopted barefoot/zero-heel shoes. I've been trying to find high end/bespoke makers that would cater to my need and make me shoes this way, unsuccessfully so far. Thus I've been forced to wear Vivo, Carets and Zaqq, which are not spectacular. I am now talking to a couple of bespoke shoemakers, who looks like might be able to accomodate my needs.

 

[belinmad]

I think you should have gotten pleats on yours like the Scott Fraser pants. I think it would only add to the appearance of comfort and volume and also breakup for the eye the mass of cloth you have spread over your belly. I actually think high wasted pants with pleats look much better on portly figures, than flat fronts worn below the belly. On some of your suits I also see flat fronts and thinks pleats and a higher waist would improve the look overall.

Yes, now my standard is high waisted, deep pleats for all my trousers.
The Capri trousers actually do have pleats, but they are not as marked or deep. Since we did those, I have asked Dan to go deeper on the pleats. I have 2 pairs of linen trousers where this is the case. I'll try to post some pictures later.

This is what my bespoke trousers tend to look like these days (these are cavalry twill, cut by Cerrato in Naples):

 

[sirloin]

Perhaps German bespoke makers, as Kleeman in Hamburg, are trained towards your needs?

 

[belinmad]

Perhaps German bespoke makers, as Kleeman in Hamburg, are trained towards your needs?

Not familiar with them, but will definitely take a look. Thanks!

 

[ASSHAT]

Yes, now my standard is high waisted, deep pleats for all my trousers.
The Capri trousers actually do have pleats, but they are not as marked or deep. Since we did those, I have asked Dan to go deeper on the pleats. I have 2 pairs of linen trousers where this is the case. I'll try to post some pictures later.

This is what my bespoke trousers tend to look like these days (these are cavalry twill, cut by Cerrato in Naples):

glad to hear it. those look great.

 

[sirloin]

Not familiar with them, but will definitely take a look. Thanks!

Klemann, sorry. Only looked into the store from the street, and read about them through Bernhard Roetzel.
According to "Handmade Shoes for Men" by Vass, there is also Himer & Himer in Baden-Baden, who works with orthopedic shoes - and tries to make them look nice at the same time. Finally our member Enrile does this kind of work.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

It takes one to get one.

The trousers are a bespoke copy of 30's "Capri" trousers some guy called Soctt Fraser copied for his collection: https://scottfrasercollection.com/product/gaucho-trousers

We made the legs wider for fun and comfort.
No regrets, no apologies, gentlemen.

Yes, the infamous ''20s Beach Pyjama'' moment!

 

[belinmad]

Linen trousers by Dan Macangus.
As discussed - high waist, (2) deep pleats, wide leg for comfort.

 

[Grand Potentate]

View attachment 34165

Linen trousers by Dan Macangus.
As discussed - high waist, (2) deep pleats, wide leg for comfort.

i could live with the pants but that shirt's got to go straight into the fire.

 

[Grand Potentate]

In London I didn't find most SR tailors accommodating to my figure or what I wanted, with the exception of John Kent, who is great but on the expensive side (or at par with the rest of the SR folks, really). Ultimately, I chose Dan Macangus from Macangus and Wainwright, who is very technical and detail oriented, open minded and studious. He modified a lot of his "ways" to accomodate my figure (most particularly the inner waist darts on the coat, and the shape of the seat of the trousers, as well as the pleats). Dan in my main guy

John Kent, London

Dan Macangus, London

Dan Macangus, London

Dan Macangus, London

In Madrid I work with Joaquin Fernandez Prats whom I find equally skilled and accommodating.

Fernandez Prats, Madrid

Here in Southern Italy I'm still exploring, but overall I find the Neapolitan and Sicilian tailors to have a very strong understanding of "non standard" body figures.

Sartoria Crimi, Palermo

Finally, Frank Shattuck, while very controversial in every single forum I've been to, has a pretty strong eye for big/non-standard figures.

Frank Shattuck, NY

i notice you go for a higher armhole and tighter waist on a lot of these jackets. is this done to cut the cross between giving you enough room in the chest and not making the jacket body too wide? its a common problem i used to have in finding a jacket with a large top block and less large waist.

 

[belinmad]

i could live with the pants but that shirt's got to go straight into the fire.

It's a fucking beach shirt. Feel free to buy one and burn it any which way makes you happy.

 

[Grand Potentate]

It's a fucking beach shirt. Feel free to buy one and burn it any which way makes you happy.

we all have our crosses to bear.

 

[belinmad]

i notice you go for a higher armhole and tighter waist on a lot of these jackets. is this done to cut the cross between giving you enough room in the chest and not making the jacket body too wide? its a common problem i used to have in finding a jacket with a large top block and less large waist.

Pretty much. I prefer higher armhole because I find the jackets then to be much more natural as I move my arms. Also with a bigger chest, it helps.
Tighter waist because I like it to have some shape, otherwise the jacket looks like a rectangle.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Pretty much. I prefer higher armhole because I find the jackets then to be much more natural as I move my arms. Also with a bigger chest, it helps.
Tighter waist because I like it to have some shape, otherwise the jacket looks like a rectangle.

my top block was larger than yours at the time so i was unfortunately unable to make that tradeoff in the shoulders. but the waist would be ridiculously v-shaped if i went with a fully sleek design so i had to leave the excess just to maintain some semblance of shape.

 

[sirloin]

my top block was larger than yours at the time

How much did you bench?

 

[Grand Potentate]

How much did you bench?

A fair amount

 

[formby002]

A fair amount

Dumb or bar...?

 

[Grand Potentate]

Dumb or bar...?

Both

 

[Lobbster]

Thanks. Great big boy looks, reminds me of Ethan Newton. I like the Shattuck one. Looks like he lengthened the coat while lowering the waist.

Seems your shoulders point backwards when you stand but maybe point forward when you get measured? Might casue an imbalance in the chest thus the need for larger armholes.

Have you looked at C&J handgrades? They come with a lower heel and the 337 last is very accomodating. Most German makers don't know how to make orthopedic adjustments either but I would still trust the more than the English. Not far from Klemann theres H.J. Vauck who used to maked shoes for Ed Meier. Himer and Himer as mentioned in the book doesn't exist any more. The old man died some time ago and now the daughter makes the shoes, in the same town there are Vickermann & Stoya. In general there are many options for bespoke shoes in Germany, it just depends where you want to go.

There are cheaper options in and around Milan but you have to search for them. At Caraceni you pay for the name but they're great tailors. Dembech is a mediocre tailor who loves boasting about house cuts and how his father made the buttonholes for Caraceni. Only famous for overcharging Chinese and Swiss idiots while telling them short arms are fine.

 

[belinmad]

Seems your shoulders point backwards when you stand but maybe point forward when you get measured? Might casue an imbalance in the chest thus the need for larger armholes.

armholes are actually smaller when they are higher. In my experience, a tailor will start with larger armholes on a new client, and over time move towards higher, tighter ones as he better captures the client's posture on the pattern. Shattuck is the only tailor I've experienced that goes straight to very high armholes, making his suits incredibly comfortable. A comment he usually makes, jokingly, is that you should be able to, with your suit buttoned, put your phone to your ear, elbow up, and the fronts of the suit should not move an inch.

This is a DB he cut for me:

Have you looked at C&J handgrades? They come with a lower heel and the 337 last is very accomodating. Most German makers don't know how to make orthopedic adjustments either but I would still trust the more than the English. Not far from Klemann theres H.J. Vauck who used to maked shoes for Ed Meier. Himer and Himer as mentioned in the book doesn't exist any more. The old man died some time ago and now the daughter makes the shoes, in the same town there are Vickermann & Stoya. In general there are many options for bespoke shoes in Germany, it just depends where you want to go.

Thanks, I'll take a look. In general, I haven't explored German options much, as I don't have much business taking me to those parts regularly.

There are cheaper options in and around Milan but you have to search for them. At Caraceni you pay for the name but they're great tailors. Dembech is a mediocre tailor who loves boasting about house cuts and how his father made the buttonholes for Caraceni. Only famous for overcharging Chinese and Swiss idiots while telling them short arms are fine.

Agree - and I don't have enough interest in the Milanese style to spend the time or money finding one that I like. I enjoy the Neapolitans and Sicilians much more.

 

[formby002]

armholes are actually smaller when they are higher. In my experience, a tailor will start with larger armholes on a new client, and over time move towards higher, tighter ones as he better captures the client's posture on the pattern. Shattuck is the only tailor I've experienced that goes straight to very high armholes, making his suits incredibly comfortable. A comment he usually makes, jokingly, is that you should be able to, with your suit buttoned, put your phone to your ear, elbow up, and the fronts of the suit should not move an inch.

This is a DB he cut for me:
View attachment 34169




Thanks, I'll take a look. In general, I haven't explored German options much, as I don't have much business taking me to those parts regularly.




Agree - and I don't have enough interest in the Milanese style to spend the time or money finding one that I like. I enjoy the Neapolitans and Sicilians much more.

You use Shattuck?

What an obnoxious person he is...

 

[belinmad]

You use Shattuck?

What an obnoxious person he is...

I don’t anymore. The fully-remote approach doesn’t really work well for me, as I like to be able to make fine adjustments until I’m happy with the work. I would end up spending way too much money on UPS between London and Upstate NY.

 

[formby002]

I don’t anymore. The fully-remote approach doesn’t really work well for me, as I like to be able to make fine adjustments until I’m happy with the work. I would end up spending way too much money on UPS between London and Upstate NY.

I've always thought it better to find a tailor whose style you like and stick with them. I've always though using multiple tailors sub-optimal.

However, I wouldn't use Shattuck if he lived next door, as he comes across as such an unpleasant character. Does he still post on The London lounge?

 

[belinmad]

I've always thought it better to find a tailor whose style you like and stick with them. I've always though using multiple tailors sub-optimal.

I agree, and that's Macangus for me, and possibly Fernandez Prats in Madrid. Yet, I truly enjoy getting to know and see (and wear) the work of other tailors, particularly those from different schools and with different styles, thus my current exploration of Italian tailors. Eventually I'll probably end up choosing one in Naples and stick to them.

However, I wouldn't use Shattuck if he lived next door, as he comes across as such an unpleasant character. Does he still post on The London lounge?

He is quite the character. He does elicit a love/hate relationship - no middle of the road. And yes, he still posts on LL every now and then, even though LL these days is just about ordering the cloth.

 

[doghouse]

You use Shattuck?

What an obnoxious person he is...

The most obnoxious.

 

[doghouse]

Fernandez Prats in Madrid.

Do you have any shots of this?

 

[belinmad]

Do you have any shots of this?

there's a one in one of my previous posts.

 

[belinmad]

Here's another one

 

[doghouse]

Excellent. Its always more difficult to get examples of Spanish tailoring than English or Italian which are omnipresent.

I've pondered checking into the Spanish forum but I speak basically zero Spanish whatsoever.

 

[belinmad]

Excellent. Its always more difficult to get examples of Spanish tailoring than English or Italian which are omnipresent.

I've pondered checking into the Spanish forum but I speak basically zero Spanish whatsoever.

Happy to help if you want to pay them a visit. There are a couple of outstanding tailors in Madrid worth checking out, at a very decent price point.

 

[fxh]

Excellent. Its always more difficult to get examples of Spanish tailoring than English or Italian which are omnipresent.

I've pondered checking into the Spanish forum but I speak basically zero Spanish whatsoever.

You don’t make much sense in English so I can’t see the harm in annoying the poor Spaniards.

 

[doghouse]

You don’t make much sense in English so I can’t see the harm in annoying the poor Spaniards.

It will be less traumatic for them than Trafalgar at least.

 

[formby002]

Well, I've made me mind up and I'm going with Linen.

Any idea on colours...?