Brexit - The UK and the EU

Kingstonian

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Redwood is sound; but like Rees Mogg he did not realise/react soon enough to May’s Machiavellian modus operandi.

His recent posts are tinged with a regret and pessimism that were previously confined to his readers’ replies.

Still, the whole party must share responsibility for allowing her to continue for so long.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Indeed they must, but the party severely underestimated what type of creature they are dealing with. Lacking all charisma and finesse she's an anti-demagogue in that she appeals to no one, her skills of rhetoric are non-existent and she seems to be touching raw nerves with all the negative vibes of a female archetype, but none of the good qualities and yet she is a despot. The response she illicist is that of a witch in fairy tales. She may yet be what a female led dictator would be and behave like. I find her deeply sinister and revolting.

Still had to laugh at Verhofstadt who nailed it when he said he didn't trust the UK Parliament not to waste time running the clock down as the first thing they've done after the extension is to go on holiday. A parliament of windowdressers.
 

Fwiffo

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I read Corbyn saying there was nothing more to discuss about a possible Theresa May and Labour deal.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I read Corbyn saying there was nothing more to discuss about a possible Theresa May and Labour deal.
Imagine the disturbed mind that thinks there's profit in discussing anything other than his manhole cover collection with that anti-Semitic Trotskyite tramp. The constituency parties are livid and will be voting The Brexit Party 23 May, along with many ex-Labour supporters. Farage has really pulled the rabbit out of hat. Well done!
 

Pimpernel Smith

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The look on Iain Duncan Smith's face in PM questions on Wednesday says it all. Utter disgust. He was asking for assurance that ex-soldiers and police in Northern Ireland will not be targetted for prosecutions again unless there is new evidence, the Maybot offered no such assurances.

And by the time she had finished, most of the Tory MP's had already left the chamber. Still, too little, too late.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It hasn't kicked off yet, it hasn't even started, but it will do. The true Brit and Commonwealth will never buy into a inferior Napoleonic type system. We're well ahead on that and always will be. The essence is very simple: innocent until proven guilty vs guilty until you demonstrate innocence. One is tyranny, the other is the Brits innocent until you're proven guilty under common law.

Plus we have the USA which is Great Britain carried on by other means.

We're not beaten yet!
 

Fwiffo

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Brexit stage left: Why Theresa May's run as PM ended in tears

"Theresa May was nothing if not zealous. The U.K. prime minister wore zeal like a badge of honour as she doggedly pursued her goal of separating Britain from the European Union in a deal that her party and her parliament kept rejecting.

In the end, she announced her resignation on Friday in tears. Zeal, as Talleyrand might have told her, was not the tool to deliver Brexit.

It's hard to remember, three years on, how much room May had to manoeuvre when she became prime minister. The Brexit referendum result in 2016 hit the British political class like a thunderbolt. Few knew how to react.

May, whose Conservatives had a parliamentary majority, had a virtually free hand. She could have consulted her colleagues and the opposition, could have taken her time, could have crafted a plan for a 'soft Brexit' that would have commanded an even larger majority.

She did none of that. There was no consultation, no time-wasting and no interest in a soft Brexit. The markers she quickly laid down were rigid — notably, her insistence on strict control of immigration, even if it meant excluding EU citizens, and her refusal to join a customs union with the EU.

Then, nine months into her premiership, she set the clock running on negotiations. They would last just two years.

Having done that, she promptly called a snap election – and lost her parliamentary majority.

In the event, the EU lined up its tanks in a row. They fired in unison, and kept firing until May's government was forced to retreat in confusion.

More events served to undermine her. She cobbled a deal together that the EU would accept and locked her cabinet in her Chequers retreat until they all agreed to it. Their agreement lasted two days, and then came the thunderous resignations — first, of her own Brexit minister, David Davis, and then of the clownish but popular foreign secretary, Boris Johnson.

There were more resignations. Where other leaders would have ditched their failed approach, May simply hunkered down, clinging to her deal, presenting it to parliament not once but three times — and watched it get defeated three times. There were no precedents for this in British politics.

There were almost no precedents for her as a leader. She had no small talk and no people skills. Her cabinet frequently had no idea what she was thinking. She failed to reach out to MPs. Her husband and a handful of aides were apparently the only people she confided in."
 

Scherensammler

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Interestingly, almost all the contenders for the Tory party leadership are either former or current cabinet ministers. Apparently all just waiting to get rid of their boss...
What can possibly go wrong...

Meanwhile, from back in 2017:

 

Kingstonian

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Some enjoyable articles slagging off May in the press now. Little sympathy but great detail on why she was a terrible PM and where in particular she went wrong.

Not sure the Tory party can recover. A general election to get rid of many useless MPs would be nice but unlikely.
 

Kingstonian

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Interestingly, almost all the contenders for the Tory party leadership are either former or current cabinet ministers. Apparently all just waiting to get rid of their boss...
What can possibly go wrong...

Meanwhile, from back in 2017:

The narrator does not sound like an Irishman even if he has the passport. Then again the tea shop is not Irish either just a gay Indian which would have been unthinkable a few years ago.
 

Scherensammler

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Some enjoyable articles slagging off May in the press now. Little sympathy but great detail on why she was a terrible PM and where in particular she went wrong.

Not sure the Tory party can recover. A general election to get rid of many useless MPs would be nice but unlikely.
The MP's know that many will be ousted in a GE, inparticular those that lied about honouring the result of the referendum.

I listened to the (edited) clip of May's resignation speech first on BBC radio and found the last bit (where she's crying) a bit fake. Then I watched the clip and felt the same. Was more like a child throwing a tantrum because it wouldn't go her way.
However, I don't think a new prime minister will do better as long as parliament is involved in Brexit.

The narrator does not sound like an Irishman
Thank god for that!
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Not sure the Tory party can recover. A general election to get rid of many useless MPs would be nice but unlikely.
Unless the EU is going to change their stance and renegotiate there is only one option: leave WTO 31 October. If factions in the Conservatives try any shenanigans that will result in a GE, then it's game over for the Tories. End of the party.
 

Kingstonian

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Unless the EU is going to change their stance and renegotiate there is only one option: leave WTO 31 October. If factions in the Conservatives try any shenanigans that will result in a GE, then it's game over for the Tories. End of the party.
Well, a genuine Leave Prime Minister is the first requirement. Front runners both voted for Surrender Agreement Mark 3. Boris is sounding conciliatory. If he is PM he might go for another Brexit in Name Only scam. Raab has only said he is worried about the backstop.

Then, if they are going to leave on October 31 they will still need to overcome Continuity Remain. A General Election might then be a handy nuclear option threat if they try to interrupt the agreed Leave process -but you need a sound Leave PM first of all.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Well, a genuine Leave Prime Minister is the first requirement. Front runners both voted for Surrender Agreement Mark 3. Boris is sounding conciliatory. If he is PM he might go for another Brexit in Name Only scam. Raab has only said he is worried about the backstop.

Then, if they are going to leave on October 31 they will still need to overcome Continuity Remain. A General Election might then be a handy nuclear option threat if they try to interrupt the agreed Leave process -but you need a sound Leave PM first of all.
I meant there's only one sane option. These marionettes are more than capable of destroying their own party for the greater vision of the EU. And a nice a little tax free sinecure in Brussels or elsewhere in an EU organisation. That's the prize and it beats working for a living.
 

Scherensammler

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All traits that Angela Merkel (a pastor's daughter growing up in a communist country) shares with TM.
Lets see what globalist shill will replace either of them. Either way, more of the same. After his handling of the alleged Salisbury "attack" I don't trust Boris and I know little about the other contenders other than being willful idiots and/ or back stabbers of some sort. It won't end well.
 

Kingstonian

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No, but it will waste a few more months in the hope that something will turn up, people will get bored or another referendum can be rigged.

Continuity Remain will regroup and the struggle goes on. Bercow is now threatening to destroy No Deal options.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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No, but it will waste a few more months in the hope that something will turn up, people will get bored or another referendum can be rigged.

Continuity Remain will regroup and the struggle goes on. Bercow is now threatening to destroy No Deal options.
I don't think the public will get bored, it's no longer just about Brexit, but a battle between democratic and anti-democratic forces in the mainstream parties, the media and establishment. Mark Steyn gets it, the two parties have lost their base and the doubling down and further BS and lies will consign them to history come next election:

https://www.steynonline.com/9417/the-base-gets-itself-a-new-elite
 

Scherensammler

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Looks like they are now going after Boris for making the 350 million pounds a month claim.
3 years later. Comments on Youtube are interesting, many are saying they need to start building more courts and prisons when politicians will get done for lying during a campaign or in office.

 

Pimpernel Smith

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Looks like they are now going after Boris for making the 350 million pounds a month claim.
3 years later. Comments on Youtube are interesting, many are saying they need to start building more courts and prisons when politicians will get done for lying during a campaign or in office.

Guido Fawkes have done a good expose on the crooked little shit that is Marcus J. Ball:

https://order-order.com/2019/05/29/embarrassing-anti-boris-pitch-raise-2-million-gullible-remainers/#disqus_thread

https://order-order.com/2019/05/29/campaigner-stop-lying-politics-lied-political-campaign/#disqus_thread

Meanwhile, The Daily Mail were running with a story that Boris might get six months to life!
 

Scherensammler

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It's happening, what a difference a competent PM and team makes:

They must have planned this for quite some time, though.
Not entirely sure that this will not end up as another version of the withdrawal agreement that May presented, only that this one goes through parliament. Which, overall, is still violently opposed to a "no deal" Brexit.
Again, any agreement/ deal with the EU will mean some sort of loss of sovereignty. From what has been said and done so far the "Free movement of people" will stay. Plus Boris already wants to attract "global talent"! To do what exactly? Something the existing population can't do?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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They must have planned this for quite some time, though.
Not entirely sure that this will not end up as another version of the withdrawal agreement that May presented, only that this one goes through parliament. Which, overall, is still violently opposed to a "no deal" Brexit.
Again, any agreement/ deal with the EU will mean some sort of loss of sovereignty. From what has been said and done so far the "Free movement of people" will stay. Plus Boris already wants to attract "global talent"! To do what exactly? Something the existing population can't do?
There's no real time to renegotiate and the Remainers have nothing left in their armoury. The back-stop is only one element among several that will leave the UK a mere vassal colony of the EU. Boris is sufficiently engaged to know that there is neither time, will or good faith to renegotiate a win-win agreement. And it's time for the UK to leave the EU.

The only question now is how vindictive the EU intends to be. Merkel talking about a new cold war and iron curtain between the UK and the rest of Europe. That will galvanize the resistance everywhere.

In any population there's always missing skills, so attracting professional talent is indeed good for all concerned. It's the mass illegal immigration of grievance and those who only have a future on welfare that risks spoiling it for everyone.
 

Scherensammler

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In any population there's always missing skills, so attracting professional talent is indeed good for all concerned. It's the mass illegal immigration of grievance and those who only have a future on welfare that risks spoiling it for everyone.
It's an older article, but he's been called out on that recently. With all that "xenophobia" and anti-muslim bashing going on I'm not sure that illegal mass immigration (not just into the UK) will be stopped.
The powers that be might have replaced the main actor, but the play stays the same.
 
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