Cop Tyranny Thread

Barking Pugilist

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A law abiding citizen who reaches for a gun at the scene of an incident where someone has already been shot and armed police are present.
 

Grand Potentate

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A law abiding citizen who reaches for a gun at the scene of an incident where someone has already been shot and armed police are present.
holding a gun, pointed down, posing absolutely no threat for the cops.

i notice you didn't comment on the other video where the cop just went ahead and shot the kid in the bed. you can hear the cop say "oh shit". quality people.
 

Barking Pugilist

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holding a gun, pointed down, posing absolutely no threat for the cops.

i notice you didn't comment on the other video where the cop just went ahead and shot the kid in the bed. you can hear the cop say "oh shit". quality people.
If you are holding a gun how long do you suppose it takes to raise it and fire it?

No I didn’t comment on the bedroom shooting… but I will. Cops over there are going into situations that are awash with drugs, readily available guns and crazy people who are off their heads on various substances. Kids are the most dangerous because they are irrational and impulsive. Of course the cop says ‘oh shit’, do you think it’s great to shoot someone in the line of duty? Discerning a sudden movement or someone reaching for something that might be a gun is all the warning that the cop gets. Even when you watch and rewatch some of these videos with the benefit of pause you still can’t tell what’s happened. There’s no pause or re-run for the cop in real life who has to make a decision in a fraction of a second in a confused situation. But you’re quite happy to sit in judgement … because you’re an armchair fucking expert
 

Pimpernel Smith

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there are just SO MANY dogwhistles in this post.
Ultra MAGA fascists everywhere!

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Barking Pugilist

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The States is unique and we in other western nations have no equivalence of places like Chicago and the deliberate policy of de-policing to let the community get on with it, the legions of homeless mental cripples and drug addicts left to rot.

And in this age of white privilege and fragility, etc, I do believe that separate community policing will and already is the future. With all that entails.
An interesting one to watch. The only equivalence I can think of were the ‘No Go’ areas in N.Ireland during the Troubles when the police had to withdraw because of the terrorist threat. Of course the strong always take over and pretty soon the Provos were doing the policing, if you didn’t care for the local police much the idea of the community ’looking after itself’ might have appealed to you. But when Little Johnny got a punishment beating for breaking into cars instead of going to court, or got picked up for burglary and by the time they found out they’d got the wrong man it was too late because they’d already shot his kneecaps off, people started to think that perhaps the police weren’t so bad after all.
 

Grand Potentate

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Well done police defunding campaigners.
why is it ALWAYS chicago with you freaks? and a 6 year old article no less.

Ultra MAGA fascists everywhere!

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gotta stand with your people on this one.

If you are holding a gun how long do you suppose it takes to raise it and fire it?
i'm not precisely sure why any answer to that question requires my death. is the simple fact of gun possession enough to justify being murdered by the cops to you?

No I didn’t comment on the bedroom shooting… but I will. Cops over there are going into situations that are awash with drugs, readily available guns and crazy people who are off their heads on various substances. Kids are the most dangerous because they are irrational and impulsive. Of course the cop says ‘oh shit’, do you think it’s great to shoot someone in the line of duty? Discerning a sudden movement or someone reaching for something that might be a gun is all the warning that the cop gets. Even when you watch and rewatch some of these videos with the benefit of pause you still can’t tell what’s happened. There’s no pause or re-run for the cop in real life who has to make a decision in a fraction of a second in a confused situation. But you’re quite happy to sit in judgement … because you’re an armchair fucking expert
got it. kids are all liable to kill you and everyone has a gun and drugs and is a meth-addled psycho. completely reasonable take and definitely nothing that needs further psychoanalysis.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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An interesting one to watch. The only equivalence I can think of were the ‘No Go’ areas in N.Ireland during the Troubles when the police had to withdraw because of the terrorist threat. Of course the strong always take over and pretty soon the Provos were doing the policing, if you didn’t care for the local police much the idea of the community ’looking after itself’ might have appealed to you. But when Little Johnny got a punishment beating for breaking into cars instead of going to court, or got picked up for burglary and by the time they found out they’d got the wrong man it was too late because they’d already shot his kneecaps off, people started to think that perhaps the police weren’t so bad after all.
There are forum members who would prefer policing handed over to community leaders and Antifa types, which of course is a recipe for tribalism ruled by warlords and armed militia. Dreadful.

Peter Hitchens, whist the ultimate curmudgeon, put me onto reading up on Sir Robert Peel's Policing Principles, which I had never read until relatively recently. And what genius those principles where and are.
 

Barking Pugilist

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i'm not precisely sure why any answer to that question requires my death. is the simple fact of gun possession enough to justify being murdered by the cops to you?


got it. kids are all liable to kill you and everyone has a gun and drugs and is a meth-addled psycho. completely reasonable take and definitely nothing that needs further psychoanalysis.
All your naive muddled conclusions not mine. ‘requires my death’ - where does that come from? Pinball machine logic.
 

Grand Potentate

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There’s a lot of naivety that’s for sure.
as opposed to your steely eyed fact telling i guess?
All your naive muddled conclusions not mine. ‘requires my death’ - where does that come from? Pinball machine logic.
if i were holding a gun in the scenario. stay with us here you're supposed to be the facts and logic people.
Is it because dozens and dozens of people get shot every weekend there?
no they don't
It's the poster boy for hands-off policing to let the community get on with it.
do your homework. the chicago police budget is astronomically high (over $2 billion last i checked) and sees year over year increases. spending per capita has more than doubled in 50+ years


of course i wouldn't expect you or this other british bozo to actually do any research on these topics outside of reading a few articles on your favorite right wing echo chamber.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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as opposed to your steely eyed fact telling i guess?

if i were holding a gun in the scenario. stay with us here you're supposed to be the facts and logic people.

no they don't

do your homework. the chicago police budget is astronomically high (over $2 billion last i checked) and sees year over year increases. spending per capita has more than doubled in 50+ years


of course i wouldn't expect you or this other british bozo to actually do any research on these topics outside of reading a few articles on your favorite right wing echo chamber.
No research whatsoever...this was last weekend:


Hint: try a Google search ''Chicago shootings last weekend'' or ''Chicago shootings 2022''.

Quite correct there are dozens and dozens of people getting shot each weekend in Chicago.
 

Grand Potentate

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No research whatsoever...this was last weekend:


Hint: try a Google search ''Chicago shootings last weekend'' or ''Chicago shootings 2022''.

Quite correct there are dozens and dozens of people getting shot each weekend in Chicago.
yes, one weekend. not every weekend. i understand the distinction is difficult.

and we know chicago is a problem. have you thought of focusing on a different city? might help you spread your wings.
 

Grand Potentate

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quelle surprise!

got to love the news reporter "experts tell me this should not have happened and that the officers lied on the report" without missing a beat.
 

Dropbear

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yes, one weekend. not every weekend. i understand the distinction is difficult.

and we know chicago is a problem. have you thought of focusing on a different city? might help you spread your wings.

Chicago ranks as no 28 in US cities with the highest per capita homicide rate. What sets Chicago apart is that the violence is largely black gang related (far more so than other cities higher on the list Milwaukee, Little Rock or Baton Rouge). So Chicago becomes the far right’s fear mongering dog whistle.

Ironically, as spending on police has gone up in Chicago, crime has fallen. You’d think they would embrace this as proof that simply throwing money at law enforcement reduces crime.

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As I’ve said many times already in this threat, the US has a unique problem with policing. For years, politicians have campaigned on ‘more police’ and not ‘better police’. The sheer mass of duplication and redundancy is astounding and no wonder it compounds other problems of poor training, low recruitment standards and a culture of criminality.

I support both surgical defunding and also police reform. There are bowls of apples that are good and there are bowls of apples that are bad. We could toss out all the bad bowls and then supplement the good bowls.

My streets are patrolled by city police, county police and state police. There is a different police force patrolling the bus and train. There is a different police force in my kids’ school. I work closely with a dozen different state and federal police forces that are in my city. One of my best friends just retired from the US Marshals Service, where he was working on the Strategic National Stockpile and medical countermeasures security. It’s Byzantine. We have more police per capita than any western nation and it’s not working. We need better police, not more police.
 

Dropbear

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Does anyone know what academic qualifications are needed to become a police officer in the US and the UK?
As I said above, there is NO uniformity across the thousands of different police forces across the US. Some require an2 or 4 year degree. Some prefer graduate degrees. Others do not require high school graduation.
 

Sammy Ambrose

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As I said above, there is NO uniformity across the thousands of different police forces across the US. Some require an2 or 4 year degree. Some prefer graduate degrees. Others do not require high school graduation.
Just read somewhere that some UK forces require A Level. That is encouraging. I don't want to belittle US educational standards, but American academics I have met tel me British A levels are equivalent to American Bachelor degrees.
 

Dropbear

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This link suggests a relationship between police education and force. ( Apologies if this has already been posted. )


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Interesting and yet not surprising.

There has been a push over the past 15-20 years to hire police who are older and with more life experience. Instead of plucking 17yo drop outs from school to go straight into a career in law enforcement, the academies have a lot more 30somethings who have worked as teachers, EMS, servers and a range of other fields. It sounds like a good idea, but it hasn’t really changed anything.
 

Grand Potentate

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Does anyone know what academic qualifications are needed to become a police officer in the US and the UK?
You have to graduate high school with a C or D average and also have been a bully, some kind of jock athlete, or have a strong tendency to psychopathic behavior.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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This link suggests a relationship between police education and force. ( Apologies if this has already been posted. )


View attachment 44814
Wouldn't confuse academic qualifications as being superior to a vocational one. The ''...less educated...'' is a bit snobbish.

You could put forward a hypothesis that those highly educated 4 year degree cops are pen pushers and are not engaged at the pointy end. Hence it's skewered to show that they don't use or need to use force. I haven't read the paper, just going from the headline.

What do you want from a cop at street level? Don't need a law degree, you want tactical competency, physical presence and able to react fast i.e. a skilled apprenticeship with the same physical aptitude.
 

Grand Potentate

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You could put forward a hypothesis that those highly educated 4 year degree cops are pen pushers and are not engaged at the pointy end. Hence it's skewered to show that they don't use or need to use force. I haven't read the paper, just going from the headline.
i'm shocked to hear this. you're normally so good about doing thorough research on the topics you're speaking about!
 

Sammy Ambrose

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Wouldn't confuse academic qualifications as being superior to a vocational one. The ''...less educated...'' is a bit snobbish.

You could put forward a hypothesis that those highly educated 4 year degree cops are pen pushers and are not engaged at the pointy end. Hence it's skewered to show that they don't use or need to use force. I haven't read the paper, just going from the headline.

What do you want from a cop at street level? Don't need a law degree, you want tactical competency, physical presence and able to react fast i.e. a skilled apprenticeship with the same physical aptitude.
The article also talks about practical 'field' experience being a distinguishing, determining factor.

I agree that we don't want to be snobbish, but can we discount the importance of the critical thinking faculty that academic training fosters?
 

Barking Pugilist

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What do you want from a cop at street level? Don't need a law degree, you want tactical competency, physical presence and able to react fast i.e. a skilled apprenticeship with the same physical aptitude.
Those people were traditionally drawn from working or lower middle class backgrounds and had often spent several years in industry or the armed forces beforehand. Efforts to increase the number of degree educated cops in the UK aren’t going particularly well, just as the vision of degree educated nurses has produced many that quickly get tired of working on a ward and emptying bedpans, people who go from school to university to the police often lack the life experience, robustness and communication skills needed to spend years constantly sweeping up the detritus of society. They are soon looking for something less enervating. Reports recommending that things are bound to get better if more graduates are recruited are usually written by graduates. But with 40% of the population going on to higher education a degree doesn’t necessarily signify what it once did, many of them can’t spell or string a coherent paragraph together.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Those people were traditionally drawn from working or lower middle class backgrounds and had often spent several years in industry or the armed forces beforehand. Efforts to increase the number of degree educated cops in the UK aren’t going particularly well, just as the vision of degree educated nurses has produced many that quickly get tired of working on a ward and emptying bedpans, people who go from school to university to the police often lack the life experience, robustness and communication skills needed to spend years constantly sweeping up the detritus of society. They are soon looking for something less enervating. Reports recommending that things are bound to get better if more graduates are recruited are usually written by graduates. But with 40% of the population going on to higher education a degree doesn’t necessarily signify what it once did, many of them can’t spell or string a coherent paragraph together.
That's what I was grasping for: you need to be street smart to be an effective copper.

Remember friends of mine back in the 1990's telling me that the Project 2000 for the degree qualified nurses was going to be a disaster, turning the practical apprenticeship of nursing into an academic subject taught in colleges.

Not every career is best served by someone taking an academic route, or unrelated degree subject for 3 years and then be fast tracked through promotions with little experience in the complex and dynamic reality of operations and dealing with people not quite from the same life or educational experience as one's own.
 
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