Disagreeable Menswear Post Of The Day

Alterwelt

Member
Messages
11
oh boy. train wreck. that hat looks disproportional. on occasion he has good photos. all his clothing individually is impeccable (bespoke or very high quality), but just the way he puts it together often times comes across as very stodgy.
 

Journeyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Messages
3,292
why was Pou-pou at Pitti?
I've been asking this question for years now. I don't understand why a clothing wholesaler convention seems so fascinating to people, although obviously social media and clothing fora such as SF have a lot to do with the fascination.

It's rather like a car lover going to a convention of car-part manufacturers, rather than to an auto show. I like cars, but by and large I don't care about the company that makes the bolts that hold the sub-frame together, or that makes the window-wiper motors. It's the same with Pitti - I like clothing but Pitti seems like an awful experience unless you're actually involved in the business.

However, I suppose that going to Pitti can give you the sense of being an insider, of being part of the action, and I suppose that appeals to some people. They're no longer just chatting about menswear on the internet - they're actually in the centre of #menswear action!
 

Pimpernel Smith

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,791
I've been asking this question for years now. I don't understand why a clothing wholesaler convention seems so fascinating to people, although obviously social media and clothing fora such as SF have a lot to do with the fascination.

It's rather like a car lover going to a convention of car-part manufacturers, rather than to an auto show. I like cars, but by and large I don't care about the company that makes the bolts that hold the sub-frame together, or that makes the window-wiper motors. It's the same with Pitti - I like clothing but Pitti seems like an awful experience unless you're actually involved in the business.

However, I suppose that going to Pitti can give you the sense of being an insider, of being part of the action, and I suppose that appeals to some people. They're no longer just chatting about menswear on the internet - they're actually in the centre of #menswear action!
The way it has progressed has injected some buzz and spark, however much it gives us grazing grass to scoff and laugh at. The nitty-gritty may be boring and mundane, but better to do this with some style and pizzazz than not. And certainly in Italy those machine shop owners, directors and general managers who make widgets for the car and other industries are big, big, big people not the schmucks we see them as in Brit and American society.
 

ballmouse

Well-Known Member
Messages
83
95% said they thought PS had more credibility than other sources, which is a riot. Can't say I agree with judging a book by it's cover, but he conjures up the image of snake oil salesman on first impression.

But if the average age and income are true, perhaps his readers can't be bothered to spend time reading any other sources and/or they prefer slick marketing similar to other 'luxury' products and services they undoubtedly partake in is the surest way to credibility?
 

Pimpernel Smith

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,791
The eagerly awaited results of the permanent style readership survey are out. 100% representative and never to be questioned. 140k£ average income? My ass! Really looking forward how he'll use this as an excuse whenever criticism comes up.

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2020/01/ps-readership-survey-the-results.html
The average reader income is not £130,000 as he himself admits in the smaller print later on, but before that he states this ''His average income is £130k ($170k).'' When you're looking at salaries and for the average of what people earn, you are not looking at the statistical average as a couple of super high earners will skewer the figures, as it's really only a statistic and doesn't represent the income of the individual very well.

What you want is the mode, i.e. what most people actually earn and the median middle point. Here he admits it is £86k. That's the middle point for 50% of his readership earn more than that and 50% less.

While the statement that the average income £130,000 may be statistically correct. It is not correct when applied to indviduals as what the individual average reader gets in income. What this is, I suspect would be in a range well below £100,000.
 

fxh

OG Party Suit Wearer
Supporter
Messages
6,554
In addition it is a well known error that in surveys such as this respondents exaggerate their income.
 

Pimpernel Smith

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,791
In addition it is a well known error that in surveys such as this respondents exaggerate their income.
Aye, like when you deliberately underestimate your drinking habits at the doctors.

''Oh yes, one or two glasses of claret with dinner.....but only on Friday and Saturday evening. Everthing in moderation, that's my motto.....''

As they look at you inquisitively and rephrase the question to see if you will own up to being a self-medicating, to hell with moderation, Schnapps, Chianto, porter and ouzo Pernod, vodka, Sambuca drinking expat miracle from the dissolute classes.
 

Journeyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Messages
3,292
In addition it is a well known error that in surveys such as this respondents exaggerate their income.
That reminds me of a survey that was handed out when I was in first-year uni, asking about sexual experience, preferences and so on. All anonymous, of course.

The results were collated and circulated later and I was rather surprised to read that apparently all of my male classmates were veritable Don Juans who appeared to roger almost anything that moved based on the frequency of their experiences, while almost all of my female classmates appeared to be almost virgin-like in their lack of experience!
 

Nashav

Active Member
Messages
41
The eagerly awaited results of the permanent style readership survey are out. 100% representative and never to be questioned. 140k£ average income? My ass! Really looking forward how he'll use this as an excuse whenever criticism comes up.

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2020/01/ps-readership-survey-the-results.html
He also only publishes the results but we don't see the actual survey's results or the actual number of participants.
Considering how dishonest he is with his reviews, I cannot help but think that he manipulated his data.

95% said they thought PS had more credibility than other sources. I am sure he believes that, whether that is true, that is another thing.
 

Pimpernel Smith

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,791
He also only publishes the results but we don't see the actual survey's results or the actual number of participants.
Considering how dishonest he is with his reviews, I cannot help but think that he manipulated his data.
He mentions the number of participants being about 2500 somewhere.

He doesn't have to manipulate the data, just massage it a little and be selective and use averages to give a false picture of his readership's wealth i.e. 50% of participants and possibly loyal followers earn less than £86K a year. That's far from the £130K stated.

But I am much more interested in what this tells us about the man. He's a money snob and chasing the money. He's mugging for a rich clientele he perceives he can do a lap dance for. That explains his atrocious how to dress well on a budget which was all about dismissing that possibility.

A bit of a rotter really, but only on the level that he's a bit of dickhead and someone you'd likely avoid at a dinner or garden party.
 

Alterwelt

Member
Messages
11
The average reader income is not £130,000 as he himself admits in the smaller print later on, but before that he states this ''His average income is £130k ($170k).'' When you're looking at salaries and for the average of what people earn, you are not looking at the statistical average as a couple of super high earners will skewer the figures, as it's really only a statistic and doesn't represent the income of the individual very well.

What you want is the mode, i.e. what most people actually earn and the median middle point. Here he admits it is £86k. That's the middle point for 50% of his readership earn more than that and 50% less.

While the statement that the average income £130,000 may be statistically correct. It is not correct when applied to indviduals as what the individual average reader gets in income. What this is, I suspect would be in a range well below £100,000.
actually the £86k. so his audience is mostly aspires to have the trappings of rich, storied, bespoke stuff...a that salary point there are tradeoffs. thats assuming people on the survey didn't lie.
 

Pimpernel Smith

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,791
actually the £86k. so his audience is mostly aspires to have the trappings of rich, storied, bespoke stuff...a that salary point there are tradeoffs. thats assuming people on the survey didn't lie.
Everything is relative....how big is your mortgage? Not yours, but in general. You can have a much bigger sartorial disposal income out in the provinces, or not. In London £86k is a pleb, in Hull that's something else. But then again, if you don't have a mortgage to pay in London and have inherited or paid for a stately pad, or not, then that's something else again.

£86k is a lot and also not a lot depending on your circumstances. As is £130K.

That's why our mascot, doesn't quite get it. And nor should he, mascots aren't there to be clever or street wise. In fact being a bit thick, or half witted is a good thing. For those not in the real world. Hope he has Paypal account, we can then sponsor his willful ignorance.
 

Alterwelt

Member
Messages
11
Everything is relative....how big is your mortgage? Not yours, but in general. You can have a much bigger sartorial disposal income out in the provinces, or not. In London £86k is a pleb, in Hull that's something else. But then again, if you don't have a mortgage to pay in London and have inherited or paid for a stately pad, or not, then that's something else again.

£86k is a lot and also not a lot depending on your circumstances. As is £130K.

That's why our mascot, doesn't quite get it. And nor should he, mascots aren't there to be clever or street wise. In fact being a bit thick, or half witted is a good thing. For those not in the real world. Hope he has Paypal account, we can then sponsor his willful ignorance.

LOL. Well put.
 

Journeyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Messages
3,292
actually the £86k. so his audience is mostly aspires to have the trappings of rich, storied, bespoke stuff...a that salary point there are tradeoffs. thats assuming people on the survey didn't lie.
I think that this is what most people who follow lifestyle blogs are like. There's an awful lot of "aspiration" out there and in places like the US and Australia (and presumably the UK, too), pretty much everyone who is young and middle class assumes that they will be successful as they become older. Of course, the reality is sadly different...
 

formby001

Well-Known Member
Messages
140
That reminds me of a survey that was handed out when I was in first-year uni, asking about sexual experience, preferences and so on. All anonymous, of course.

The results were collated and circulated later and I was rather surprised to read that apparently all of my male classmates were veritable Don Juans who appeared to roger almost anything that moved based on the frequency of their experiences, while almost all of my female classmates appeared to be almost virgin-like in their lack of experience!
It was probably the other way round.
 

Kingstonian

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,487
I think that this is what most people who follow lifestyle blogs are like. There's an awful lot of "aspiration" out there and in places like the US and Australia (and presumably the UK, too), pretty much everyone who is young and middle class assumes that they will be successful as they become older. Of course, the reality is sadly different...
In the UK youngsters have realised that their parents had better job prospects than them. Meanwhile the reality for us Old Age Pensioners is the free bus pass and the Winter Fuel Allowance.

All contributions gratefully received

Kingstonian
Care of :-
The Distressed Gentlefolks Association
(Or whatever it has been rebranded as)

Meanwhile congratulations to Tom Mendel (if he exists and if he is not an old pal of Crompers). Five hundred sovs that he has already spent on the finest shirtings and exclusive knitwear. Spalla cameechy and sprezzatura to the highest. More work for those charming Neapolitan grandmothers.
 

Lobbster

Well-Known Member
Messages
97
I think that this is what most people who follow lifestyle blogs are like. There's an awful lot of "aspiration" out there and in places like the US and Australia (and presumably the UK, too), pretty much everyone who is young and middle class assumes that they will be successful as they become older. Of course, the reality is sadly different...
Which is my exactly percetion of most forum/instagram/... users . You have a few senior ones who dress for fun, but most are young social climbers from all kinds of middle to lower class backgrounds with business degrees . Crompton's audience is the same, not including those who are in "the business" in one form or another anyway. There might be a few senior followers but most will be you professionals looking to play old money and give of an air of sophistication and class.

I'm on friendly terms with a good dozen shop owners/brand owners/craftsmen in the upper end of the market and their experiences run contrary to what Crompton writes. Young customers? Hardly any if at all. It's the 60+ self-employed crowd that keeps them going, not even those working for large corporations or in the public sector. Same goes for trunk shows, all senior doctors/lawyers/entrepreneurs in one form or another. While there are young ones coming up most aren't exactly bulk buyers while they have a very theoretical idea of style, no matter if suits or shoes and treat most of this as a one off. One guy tried to cater to a younger crowd with young craftsmen while running more contermporary styles and designs. It turned out to be a massive loss while almost alienating the old customer base. This up and coming group of young proefessionals who have quality and tradition in mind is simply non-existant and an invention of marketing departments.
 

Great White Snark

Well-Known Member
Messages
494
And then you have the likes of a Foo who had a passing phase of ordering pants from that Italian fella ten at a time for a grand each, and now by his own confession admitting it was all a bunch of hooey, an expensive hobby at best not a lifestyle lifelong commitment, and seems content to go to work on a Patagonia vest.
 

Pimpernel Smith

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,791
LOL. Well put.
It is of course disposable income that counts when it comes to opportunities to go bespoke.

And one of life's lessons is that the more you earn, the more various entities from the government down to your family who come and take a slice of the action. Leaving you roughly the same pocket money you had in your mid-twenties, no matter how much you earn.

I think that this is what most people who follow lifestyle blogs are like. There's an awful lot of "aspiration" out there and in places like the US and Australia (and presumably the UK, too), pretty much everyone who is young and middle class assumes that they will be successful as they become older. Of course, the reality is sadly different...
In the rat race of career, one should never assume anything. Along with tenacity, skill and fire in your belly, you need a certain amount of luck.

In the UK youngsters have realised that their parents had better job prospects than them. Meanwhile the reality for us Old Age Pensioners is the free bus pass and the Winter Fuel Allowance.
There's other career opportunities now, some of them extremely well rewarded in comparison to the old world of the corporate man.

Which is my exactly percetion of most forum/instagram/... users . You have a few senior ones who dress for fun, but most are young social climbers from all kinds of middle to lower class backgrounds with business degrees . Crompton's audience is the same, not including those who are in "the business" in one form or another anyway. There might be a few senior followers but most will be you professionals looking to play old money and give of an air of sophistication and class.

I'm on friendly terms with a good dozen shop owners/brand owners/craftsmen in the upper end of the market and their experiences run contrary to what Crompton writes. Young customers? Hardly any if at all. It's the 60+ self-employed crowd that keeps them going, not even those working for large corporations or in the public sector. Same goes for trunk shows, all senior doctors/lawyers/entrepreneurs in one form or another. While there are young ones coming up most aren't exactly bulk buyers while they have a very theoretical idea of style, no matter if suits or shoes and treat most of this as a one off. One guy tried to cater to a younger crowd with young craftsmen while running more contermporary styles and designs. It turned out to be a massive loss while almost alienating the old customer base. This up and coming group of young proefessionals who have quality and tradition in mind is simply non-existant and an invention of marketing departments.
Pretty much the same here, of the very small niche of men's tailors here in the Netherlands all those places are frequented by a much older generation who have made their money, 60s plus. I'm nearly 50 and I would class myself as one of the younger customers. Never seen anyone younger than myself in any of these places. The exception are the ''modern'' tailors who cater for the footballers. They go to visit the footballer at their home with an option of several ''looks'' and they buy maybe a couple or more of them and its 15 grand thank you very much. Off-the-shelf stuff.
 

formby001

Well-Known Member
Messages
140
Mr Crompton seems to get a lot of free advertising.

...there's no such thing as bad publicity. How true.....

And, we now live in a shameless age.
 
Top Bottom