Disagreeable Menswear Post Of The Day

foxandhound

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169
Interesting, as I'm completely shaved on my head due to baldness and I find that it needs to be lower that 4C/39F, any higher and I get a terrible spot somewhere on the forehead that takes about 4-6 weeks to disappear.



That's because my brain is four or five sentences ahead, or it could just be I'm 2-3 pre-dinner drinks ahead fo everyone else.

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Journeyman

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Vuarnet and Oakley sunglasses...

Funny enough on this topic, my single greatest investment of all time was a pair of original Oakley Frogskins off eBay in like 2002.
I had a pair of Vuarnet Pilot Nylons and a pair of Oakley Frogskins (plus some M-Frames and Frogskins for cycling) when I was at uni.

Unfortunately, the Frogskins dropped out of my bag on the bus one day and I never saw them again. :cry:
 

Kingstonian

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Back on track, the illustration for the ‘best dressed man of 2020’ shows Crompton next to a ‘Care in the Community’ patient. I’m not sure if it is him or Crompton who are up for the award.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Back on track, the illustration for the ‘best dressed man of 2020’ shows Crompton next to a ‘Care in the Community’ patient. I’m not sure if it is him or Crompton who are up for the award.
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Crompton: ''....I do find drinking tea from a whisky tumbler ever so envigorating!''
Beatnik man: ''Mine's some LSD cum liquid...''
Japanese dude: ''Are you two looking for a life too?''


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Junior Maestro: ''Suits you, Sir!''
Olde Maestro of Napoli: ''Now I know how Michaelengo felt after he finished the Sistene Chapel! My finest creation! Magnifico!''
Crompton: ''Still think I should have gone with the brown....''
 

Alterwelt

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13
-who is simons target audience Or addressable market?
—-if someone was a real baller, wouldn’t you just bypass and go straight to a bespoke suit maker?
—-On the other hand if you’re doing MTM and OTR his advice is way too expensive (e.g. that 7K overcoat).


-is he independently wealthy? Where does he get all the money for clothes? Are they gifted to him?

im not trying to knock his hustle but trying to understand...
 

Great White Snark

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502
This post pretty much sums up my musings on the subject.

And the previous one from Pimpernel Smith sums up my puzzlement that with a plethora of choices from allegedly some of the best tailors on the planet, how come seemingly the vast majority of his pictures show him in some slope-shouldered concoction of brown and grey?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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im not trying to knock his hustle but trying to understand...
It's a busy hustle....trying to generate hits and build an online luxury brand, but this I find revealing:

''The most important things by far in a shirt are fit and style, not quality.'' Taken from here:


He's an Italian fanboy, nothing more or less. Italian shirt construction, as with shoes, are poor quality in comparison with the great English makers. He knows they can't compete and so introduces a way, he perceives they can compete i.e. it's not about quality.

He dresses in the Italian look. Even when he does use a Brit, he looks like he's off to Pitti not an English garden or boating event.
 

Journeyman

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Italian shirt construction, as with shoes, are poor quality in comparison with the great English makers.
It may be a bit off-topic for this thread, but I'm interested in why you say this.

I've had shirts from H&K, Gieves & Hawkes, Harvie and Hudson and various other English brands (but not Turnbull & Asser), and I've had shirts from numerous Italian makers, including Borrelli, Brioni, Inglese and others. I also owned a number of Charvet shirts.

To me, it seemed that the UK shirts had more "solid" collars. The collar points were usually shorter, and the collar interlining was heavier. Some brands fused the collars, others didn't. I must say that I really didn't notice much else in the way of differences, except that UK makers typically do a split yoke but Italians generally don't. UK buttons were usually much thinner and, if they were mother-of-pearl, they were usually slivers, sometimes with the actual shell showing on the back of the buttons (which is cheaper than the full, thick MoP more frequently used by the Italians).

Italian shirts have handwork, whereas UK shirts usually don't. Some Italian makers use a lot of handwork, others essentially just attach the collar by hand. Italian collars tend to have longer points and to "springier", with thinner, lighter interlining.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It may be a bit off-topic for this thread, but I'm interested in why you say this.

I've had shirts from H&K, Gieves & Hawkes, Harvie and Hudson and various other English brands (but not Turnbull & Asser), and I've had shirts from numerous Italian makers, including Borrelli, Brioni, Inglese and others. I also owned a number of Charvet shirts.

To me, it seemed that the UK shirts had more "solid" collars. The collar points were usually shorter, and the collar interlining was heavier. Some brands fused the collars, others didn't. I must say that I really didn't notice much else in the way of differences, except that UK makers typically do a split yoke but Italians generally don't. UK buttons were usually much thinner and, if they were mother-of-pearl, they were usually slivers, sometimes with the actual shell showing on the back of the buttons (which is cheaper than the full, thick MoP more frequently used by the Italians).

Italian shirts have handwork, whereas UK shirts usually don't. Some Italian makers use a lot of handwork, others essentially just attach the collar by hand. Italian collars tend to have longer points and to "springier", with thinner, lighter interlining.
Hand-worked doesn't necessarily mean better.

Gieves & Hawkes are no longer the real deal. Back in the 1990s, but they're pretty abysmal on the shirt side now. As with much else.

T&A are the pinnacle of English shirts. It's not only a quality of construction, it's a concept of attitude. The attude towards the shirt being central to the look. The Italians don't have that concept, outside of a few Mods. For them the shirt plays second fiddle to jacket and tie. Americans are also in many ways focused elsewhere e.g. ties.

The English aristocratic look of peacock pink shirt and green country jacket displays the uniqueness, eccentricity and dandyism that is essential to the English sensibility as an island race.
 

Journeyman

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Hand-worked doesn't necessarily mean better.
Certainly - it's one factor in judging a shirt's quality but fabric, collars and cuffs, buttons, general construction and fit all play a part, too.

T&A are the pinnacle of English shirts. It's not only a quality of construction, it's a concept of attitude. The attude towards the shirt being central to the look. The Italians don't have that concept, outside of a few Mods. For them the shirt plays second fiddle to jacket and tie.

The English aristocratic look of peacock pink shirt and green country jacket displays the uniqueness, eccentricity and dandyism that is essential to the English sensibility as an island race.
You seem to be moving the goalposts.

Up above, you said "Italian shirt construction, as with shoes, are poor quality in comparison with the great English makers". However, you have now pivoted to some very subjective idea of "attitude", rather than more objective quality, with the idea that T&A shirts somehow better encapsulate an "Englishness".

Certainly, T&A may well suit a more English, rather than Italian, aesthetic. However, that's an entirely different issue to that of quality.
 

Great White Snark

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502
Hand-worked doesn't necessarily mean better.

Gieves & Hawkes are no longer the real deal. Back in the 1990s, but they're pretty abysmal on the shirt side now. As with much else.

T&A are the pinnacle of English shirts. It's not only a quality of construction, it's a concept of attitude. The attude towards the shirt being central to the look. The Italians don't have that concept, outside of a few Mods. For them the shirt plays second fiddle to jacket and tie. Americans are also in many ways focused elsewhere e.g. ties.

The English aristocratic look of peacock pink shirt and green country jacket displays the uniqueness, eccentricity and dandyism that is essential to the English sensibility as an island race.
Italian Mods? I thought that was a quintessentially English thing?

An interesting take I read on the British vs US / Italian approach to shirts is that traditionally the Brits were somewhat locked in to wearing their regimental / club / college ties so portrayed their personal flambuoyance with their shirts, meanwhile the others were more free to use their ties for a bit of flair and this explains the rather dull preponderance of solid white, solid sky blue and if they’re really pushing the boat out white and blue stripes for their shirts.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Certainly - it's one factor in judging a shirt's quality but fabric, collars and cuffs, buttons, general construction and fit all play a part, too.

You seem to be moving the goalposts.

Up above, you said "Italian shirt construction, as with shoes, are poor quality in comparison with the great English makers". However, you have now pivoted to some very subjective idea of "attitude", rather than more objective quality, with the idea that T&A shirts somehow better encapsulate an "Englishness".

Certainly, T&A may well suit a more English, rather than Italian, aesthetic. However, that's an entirely different issue to that of quality.
Not really, by making the shirt central to the look, it becomes important to have the best quality you can get. You don't need that when you're dressing in an Italian or Ivy league style.

Crompton's position, unlike his bespoke spin, is that when it comes to shirts, quality doesn't count. Any old Italian shirt will do.

Italian Mods? I thought that was a quintessentially English thing?

An interesting take I read on the British vs US / Italian approach to shirts is that traditionally the Brits were somewhat locked in to wearing their regimental / club / college ties so portrayed their personal flambuoyance with their shirts, meanwhile the others were more free to use their ties for a bit of flair and this explains the rather dull preponderance of solid white, solid sky blue and if they’re really pushing the boat out white and blue stripes for their shirts.
Yes, indeed, there are Italian Mods.

Not sure where exactly the English love of the peacock shirt comes from. And it's inherent across all classes. You go to Newcastle for a night out in the middle of winter and all the young dudes are out with only a shirt on. This is repeated across many cities in the UK. So the shirt is the look. Is it like tattoos in the Navy, a way of distinguishing your individual self on deck?

I've seen the wearing of blazers give a very negative response among upper management in the UK. Whilst blazers are quintessentially English, this always surprised me, was it the gold buttons or something? Now I realize it was how it was worn i.e. with bright white beaming shirts. Outside of some financial and banking disciplines, or wanting to give a cold impression during contract negotiations, never sport a plain white shirt as you will give a negative vibe that will be picked-up at the subliminal level by the Brits.

The shirt, along with shoes are everything.
 

Dropbear

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It’s true, though kinda weird - a full circle. The first Mods were Londoners adopting Italian style.

Skinhead has also migrated across the pond and into Asia.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It’s true, though kinda weird - a full circle. The first Mods were Londoners adopting Italian style.
They were eclectic in taste: European, American and British in the influence of the more dynamic elements of the former Empire. Especially later.

And you also had the effect of the Cunard Yanks which made Liverpool an essential gateway for American shellec music from the 1920s onwards. No accident that The Beatles happened in Liverpool.
 

formby001

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183
It may be a bit off-topic for this thread, but I'm interested in why you say this.

I've had shirts from H&K, Gieves & Hawkes, Harvie and Hudson and various other English brands (but not Turnbull & Asser), and I've had shirts from numerous Italian makers, including Borrelli, Brioni, Inglese and others. I also owned a number of Charvet shirts.

To me, it seemed that the UK shirts had more "solid" collars. The collar points were usually shorter, and the collar interlining was heavier. Some brands fused the collars, others didn't. I must say that I really didn't notice much else in the way of differences, except that UK makers typically do a split yoke but Italians generally don't. UK buttons were usually much thinner and, if they were mother-of-pearl, they were usually slivers, sometimes with the actual shell showing on the back of the buttons (which is cheaper than the full, thick MoP more frequently used by the Italians).

Italian shirts have handwork, whereas UK shirts usually don't. Some Italian makers use a lot of handwork, others essentially just attach the collar by hand. Italian collars tend to have longer points and to "springier", with thinner, lighter interlining.
I think this isn't a bad synopsis, but I'd add that the British are far more flamboyant in shirt pattern than the Italians. Take a look at the Acorn book, or better still Ringhardt. There are patterns in the Ringhardt that you would NEVER find in an Italian book even though some of the cloths would have been commission woven by Italian mills.

Italians also tend to use lighter, higher count cottons, that whilst having a nice handle, don't last long as the neckband wears quite quickly, especially so, if like me, you have a heavy full beard.
 

Kingstonian

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An interesting take I read on the British vs US / Italian approach to shirts is that traditionally the Brits were somewhat locked in to wearing their regimental / club / college ties so portrayed their personal flambuoyance with their shirts, meanwhile the others were more free to use their ties for a bit of flair and this explains the rather dull preponderance of solid white, solid sky blue and if they’re really pushing the boat out white and blue stripes for their shirts.
The notion that Brits wear these ties is a myth that is not borne out if you look around.

Yes, the ties exist and may get worn in certain occasions.

However, most Brits have had enough of striped ties after school - even if it was a posh school. So they are not seen much as a general rule. Americans are far more likely to wear stripes than Brits.
 

Great White Snark

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The notion that Brits wear these ties is a myth that is not borne out if you look around.

Yes, the ties exist and may get worn in certain occasions.

However, most Brits have had enough of striped ties after school - even if it was a posh school. So they are not seen much as a general rule. Americans are far more likely to wear stripes than Brits.
Yeah but I wasn’t on about now I was on about several decades ago, maybe a century - closer to the roots of evolution of this sort of thing. It may be apocryphal but it makes some sort of logical explanation as to why Brit shirt makers have a tendency to more flamboyant colours and styles while in America it’s a sea of sky blue.
 

Great White Snark

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Rather unlikely, given that the guy in the photo is Japanese...
I was just about to say he looks just like those derogatory cartoons the Americans used as anti-Japanese propaganda in WW2 - round coke bottle glasses and teeth that could chew an apple through a chain link fence.
 

fxh

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I was just about to say he looks just like those derogatory cartoons the Americans used as anti-Japanese propaganda in WW2 - round coke bottle glasses and teeth that could chew an apple through a chain link fence.
Or Mickey Rooney in Breakfast
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Rather unlikely, given that the guy in the photo is Japanese...
Hope there's no cultural appropriation going on there then.

These are Japanese gentlemen, that other outfit was something from The Last Emperor:


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I was just about to say he looks just like those derogatory cartoons the Americans used as anti-Japanese propaganda in WW2 - round coke bottle glasses and teeth that could chew an apple through a chain link fence.
And probably the best example of the genre is to be found in John Wayne's The Fighting Seabees.
 

Journeyman

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I was just about to say he looks just like those derogatory cartoons the Americans used as anti-Japanese propaganda in WW2 - round coke bottle glasses and teeth that could chew an apple through a chain link fence.
It wasn't just the Americans - have you ever read the Tintin adventure "The Blue Lotus", by Belgian author Herge?



That had some cultural appropriation, too, but in the other direction (although it poked fun at it):

 

Great White Snark

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Oh for fuck sake!
There’s edging up to the brink of cosplay and then there’s diving right over into the abyss. Next stop white tie and tails at the ice cream parlour.
 
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