Resume, Job Help, & Job/Career Advice

[prince nez]

Who?

Los Angeles zoo.

 

[Lord Buckley]

The Proven Path to Doing Unique and Meaningful Work

I thought it was funny when he pauses, "What to do?" It's like a European person's grasp of English. I hear my German coworkers say it all the time.

As I always preach to the impatient ones - stay the course or in this person's analogy, stay on the f!&#ing bus.

That's truly an awful analogy, I would say get off the bus if it's not for you, but only if you're prepared to go all the way on foot. Simples.

 

[Monkeyface]

Los Angeles zoo.

Ha, I wish, that sounds fun!

Grand Potentate who do you work for?

 

[Fwiffo]

That's truly an awful analogy, I would say get off the bus if it's not for you, but only if you're prepared to go all the way on foot. Simples.

I believe it addresses the one issue I find with younger folks who believe that within one performance period of 12 months, they either get promoted or they need to move on. Moving on is usually in some sudden fashion like resigning without a job. Then they bounce towards some other industry and literally start over again.

Wait - perhaps I'm overly harsh on youth. I did have a 40s coworker who was in marketing with me in insurance. Then he went on to do full bore advertising (BBDO). Now he's training to be some kind of mental therapist. The career trajectory includes significant downtime in between each field for training/certification and landing a new opportunity plus bouts of depression and moaning about the futility of it all to me in between. He clearly needed to find a path and just stick with it.

 

[Monkeyface]

I believe it addresses the one issue I find with younger folks who believe that within one performance period of 12 months, they either get promoted or they need to move on. Moving on is usually in some sudden fashion like resigning without a job. Then they bounce towards some other industry and literally start over again.

Wait - perhaps I'm overly harsh on youth. I did have a 40s coworker who was in marketing with me in insurance. Then he went on to do full bore advertising (BBDO). Now he's training to be some kind of mental therapist. The career trajectory includes significant downtime in between each field for training/certification and landing a new opportunity plus bouts of depression and moaning about the futility of it all to me in between. He clearly needed to find a path and just stick with it.

You're projecting. The current generation moves less than the yours, and because of that earns £12.5k less than yours did at a similar stage at their careers.

"The popular myth that millennial employees are disloyal job-hoppers has been punctured by research that shows young Britons sticking with their employers for longer than previous generations.

While employment experts often characterise younger workers as ambitious and hard to retain, the data suggest the opposite is true, at least in aggregate.

Moreover, young people are paying a price for this loyalty by missing out on the pay rises that typically come with switching jobs. This is part of the reason why young people are earning less in real terms than the generation before them at the same age — the first time generational progress has reversed for at least half a century."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/966b870e-f904-11e6-bd4e-68d53499ed71

 

[formby]

I think in investment banking and insurances in this field, it's still seen as manly and the right thing to do to still have a six vodka martini lunch. My understanding in the old world of the stock exchange in London before the Big Bang, it was an unwritten rule that there were no major deals after lunch as it was assumed that you would be at least rather merry, if not pissed.

I use to have an old boss of mine who had been a raging alcoholic who terrorised his work force. Before he gave up the booze, he said he use to go to bed with a half bottle of whisky to see him through the night on top what he had drank in the day. I got talking to a colleague about the number of old time managers in engineering construction who had been alcoholics and my colleague explained that back in the day, on these pipeline projects and new build construction sites, there would be no project office. So the managers, engineers and foreman would go to the local pub and use that as the office. So invariably, they all became drunkards. Seems rather plausible to me.

When I first went in the DO (Drawing Office) is was the rule that we went to the pub for our lunch on a Friday. Unbelievable amount of alcohol consumed in an hour. One of the older engineers would be asleep, head slumped against the drawing board every Friday afternoon, without fail, then when woken up at the end of the day, drive home.

There has always been a drinking culture amongst engineering contractors, especially those who work away. There's fuck all to do at the end of the working day, so it's off to the boozer and there starts the slippery slope.

 

[Lord Buckley]

I believe it addresses the one issue I find with younger folks who believe that within one performance period of 12 months, they either get promoted or they need to move on. Moving on is usually in some sudden fashion like resigning without a job. Then they bounce towards some other industry and literally start over again.

Wait - perhaps I'm overly harsh on youth. I did have a 40s coworker who was in marketing with me in insurance. Then he went on to do full bore advertising (BBDO). Now he's training to be some kind of mental therapist. The career trajectory includes significant downtime in between each field for training/certification and landing a new opportunity plus bouts of depression and moaning about the futility of it all to me in between. He clearly needed to find a path and just stick with it.

According to our Chinese manager the young Chinese graduates are like that, after the first 12 months they are looking for a 20% pay rise, or they're out of the door to your competitor. Indians too will not hang around when they can get more in another country. As one of my Indian colleagues informs me that the current crop of knowledge export Indians into the Netherlands will be gone like a flash when their 30% ruling comes to an end.

My experience on young graduates is that they're great for the first 12-18 months and will haul ass, but then they get bored and start to look for something more akin to their nature. It's inevitable I suppose, one of my competitors told me they expect to lose 60% of the graduates they take on in the first two years.

You're projecting. The current generation moves less than the yours, and because of that earns £12.5k less than yours did at a similar stage at their careers.

"The popular myth that millennial employees are disloyal job-hoppers has been punctured by research that shows young Britons sticking with their employers for longer than previous generations.

While employment experts often characterise younger workers as ambitious and hard to retain, the data suggest the opposite is true, at least in aggregate.

Moreover, young people are paying a price for this loyalty by missing out on the pay rises that typically come with switching jobs. This is part of the reason why young people are earning less in real terms than the generation before them at the same age — the first time generational progress has reversed for at least half a century."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/966b870e-f904-11e6-bd4e-68d53499ed71

I am not convinced by that research on loyalty and sticking with the one employer longer than previous generations is accurate. Perhaps in the public sector and certain industries, but what I note is that the corporate man who stayed with one firm their whole career is long gone. The job market is more flexible, take-overs and mergers more common and the resultants re-organisations make loyalty somewhat redundant. Some of our larger clients once you're in a senior management position you've probably got no more that 6 years before the next regime change and you're out the door.

I do agree that younger workers appear to be earning less in the UK, certainly when I was in my twenties and at that stage of career. But in saying that, mortgages are cheaper, albeit houses are more expensive. I think clothes, decent clobber, was pretty much more expensive in the late 80s early 90s.

When I first went in the DO (Drawing Office) is was the rule that we went to the pub for our lunch on a Friday. Unbelievable amount of alcohol consumed in an hour. One of the older engineers would be asleep, head slumped against the drawing board every Friday afternoon, without fail, then when woken up at the end of the day, drive home.

There has always been a drinking culture amongst engineering contractors, especially those who work away. There's fuck all to do at the end of the working day, so it's off to the boozer and there starts the slippery slope.

When I first started working in the fab shops in Birkenhead back in 1987, we would finish work at 1.30PM on a Friday and go straight to the local pub (The Hamlet) for 3-5 pints drank very quickly and then everyone would drive home. The drivers would have drank that amount of beer too. One of my old colleagues could drink 10 pints of beer no problem during Sunday lunch pub opening hours. And there was one colleague who I remember having a couple of pints of Guinness with and agreeing to meet back in the pub at 7PM. When I got back the barman told me that my colleague had just left half an hour ago and had supped 15 pints of Guinness in total. He still made it out though, but not until 10:30 in the evening.

 

[formby]

According to our Chinese manager the young Chinese graduates are like that, after the first 12 months they are looking for a 20% pay rise, or they're out of the door to your competitor. Indians too will not hang around when they can get more in another country. As one of my Indian colleagues informs me that the current crop of knowledge export Indians into the Netherlands will be gone like a flash when their 30% ruling comes to an end.

My experience on young graduates is that they're great for the first 12-18 months and will haul ass, but then they get bored and start to look for something more akin to their nature. It's inevitable I suppose, one of my competitors told me they expect to lose 60% of the graduates they take on in the first two years.



I am not convinced by that research on loyalty and sticking with the one employer longer than previous generations is accurate. Perhaps in the public sector and certain industries, but what I note is that the corporate man who stayed with one firm their whole career is long gone. The job market is more flexible, take-overs and mergers more common and the resultants re-organisations make loyalty somewhat redundant. Some of our larger clients once you're in a senior management position you've probably got no more that 6 years before the next regime change and you're out the door.

I do agree that younger workers appear to be earning less in the UK, certainly when I was in my twenties and at that stage of career. But in saying that, mortgages are cheaper, albeit houses are more expensive. I think clothes, decent clobber, was pretty much more expensive in the late 80s early 90s.



When I first started working in the fab shops in Birkenhead back in 1987, we would finish work at 1.30PM on a Friday and go straight to the local pub (The Hamlet) for 3-5 pints drank very quickly and then everyone would drive home. The drivers would have drank that amount of beer too. One of my old colleagues could drink 10 pints of beer no problem during Sunday lunch pub opening hours. And there was one colleague who I remember having a couple of pints of Guinness with and agreeing to meet back in the pub at 7PM. When I got back the barman told me that my colleague had just left half an hour ago and had supped 15 pints of Guinness in total. He still made it out though, but not until 10:30 in the evening.

One reason why professionals don't stay with the same company is down to the withdrawal of final salary pension schemes. And we can thank Gordon Brown for that!

 

[Fwiffo]

Indians too will not hang around when they can get more in another country.

Some of our larger clients once you're in a senior management position you've probably got no more that 6 years before the next regime change and you're out the door.

Indians (and others) won't hang around much once they get papers towards local citizenship freeing them from their indentured service to whatever firms sponsored them here.

Regime change is the one that rocks lengthy tenures once you get to a certain level. At my old American company, every time we had a new CEO that meant a thorough house cleaning in the CxO, EVP and SVP ranks. If you really want to survive you really ought not to go past VP. Most 20 year tenure folks were AVPs Nowadays with boards appointing CEOs and expecting results in 24 months, the cycle is even more accelerated.

You're projecting. The current generation moves less than the yours, and because of that earns £12.5k less than yours did at a similar stage at their careers.

Is there an expectation that life must be equally fair for every generation? I'm sure the folks born into the Great Depression would have rather taken a mulligan until times were better. You don't get to pick and choose when your mother decides to get fertilized.

 

[Monkeyface]

Indians (and others) won't hang around much once they get papers towards local citizenship freeing them from their indentured service to whatever firms sponsored them here.

Regime change is the one that rocks lengthy tenures once you get to a certain level. At my old American company, every time we had a new CEO that meant a thorough house cleaning in the CxO, EVP and SVP ranks. If you really want to survive you really ought not to go past VP. Most 20 year tenure folks were AVPs Nowadays with boards appointing CEOs and expecting results in 24 months, the cycle is even more accelerated.




Is there an expectation that life must be equally fair for every generation? I'm sure the folks born into the Great Depression would have rather taken a mulligan until times were better. You don't get to pick and choose when your mother decides to get fertilized.

That's not the point. You say the current generation moves jobs more, this research says otherwise.

 

[Lord Buckley]

The research strikes me as flawed: our economies are skewered away from permanent contracts with freelancers and much more of a dynamic work career with individuals shifting employers and even industries much, much more than was the historic norm. The whole ethos of a job for life, career with one firm is gone. The corporate man is dead.

 

[Monkeyface]

The research strikes me as flawed: our economies are skewered away from permanent contracts with freelancers and much more of a dynamic work career with individuals shifting employers and even industries much, much more than was the historic norm. The whole ethos of a job for life, career with one firm is gone. The corporate man is dead.

Sure, let's rely on your anecdotal evidence instead of a peer reviewed and published study.

 

[Lord Buckley]

Peer reviewed by whom? A lot of academia is now regarded as soiled and suspect, I am talking about the humanities.

I base my observation on my own family experience in the second half of the 20th century which was characterised for the baby boomers up until those born after the mid-1960s by long successful careers with very few company changes. This was also backed up by a business book I read in maybe the mid-1990s that explored the death of this work experience. I can't remember the book or the author and I've searched on the web and can't find it. Sorry.

 

[Thruth]

That's not the point. You say the current generation moves jobs more, this research says otherwise.

You just chucked your gig to move to America

 

[Monkeyface]

You just chucked your gig to move to America

Of course, I'm anything but average.

 

[Grand Potentate]

Of course, I'm anything but average.

Yes we know. Also how you're anything but above average as well.

 

[Monkeyface]

Yes we know. Also how you're anything but above average as well.

I thought you'd be happy I'm not moving to Florida?

 

[Thruth]

Of course, I'm anything but average.

 

[Grand Potentate]

I thought you'd be happy I'm not moving to Florida?

i am, mostly because i consider it saving your life. you'd definitely drive into the ocean with the windows down if you lived here.

 

[Fwiffo]

That's not the point. You say the current generation moves jobs more, this research says otherwise.

Damn it, you mean two people with anecdotal evidence doesn't beat one person with a peer reviewed research paper? What happened to democracy?!

 

[Thruth]

Damn it, you mean two people with anecdotal evidence doesn't beat one person with a peer reviewed research paper? What happened to democracy?!

Both you and Monkeyface are millenials. You need to work as a team.

 

[Fwiffo]

Both you and Monkeyface are millenials. You need to work as a team.

Are you only saying that because I ate al El Arepazo too? I only went there on a blistering summer day to impress this Venezuelan single mother. Since we don't talk anymore (or rather I don't want to beg), I'm quite done with arepas.

 

[Thruth]

Are you only saying that because I ate al El Arepazo too? I only went there on a blistering summer day to impress this Venezuelan single mother. Since we don't talk anymore (or rather I don't want to beg), I'm quite done with arepas.

No, good choice. Good arepas. But there were some junior millennials there dissecting and discussing the intricacies of arepas. Discussing social smoking and other banal things.

But you DW millennials need to form a cabal here. Provide us elders with a sense of how best to meet your needs.

 

[Monkeyface]

No, good choice. Good arepas. But there were some junior millennials there dissecting and discussing the intricacies of arepas. Discussing social smoking and other banal things.

But you DW millennials need to form a cabal here. Provide us elders with a sense of how best to meet your needs.

Fwiffo is not a millennial, he's wannabe boomer.

 

[Thruth]

Fwiffo is not a millennial, he's wannabe boomer.

wannabe doesn't count. he's part of your gang along with Leitmotif !

 

[Leitmotif]

Please, stop mentioning all over the forum.

Thank you

 

[Thruth]

Please, stop mentioning all over the forum.

Thank you

stop mentioning what Walker Arnathor Leitmotif ?

 

[Leitmotif]

stop mentioning what Walker Arnathor Leitmotif

Shut up

 

[Thruth]

Shut up

 

[Fwiffo]

No, good choice. Good arepas. But there were some junior millennials there dissecting and discussing the intricacies of arepas. Discussing social smoking and other banal things.

But you DW millennials need to form a cabal here. Provide us elders with a sense of how best to meet your needs.

Kensington Market is a bit Bohemian for you.

You can't meet my needs. Lot of you spoiled the world - drawing on defined benefit pensions and leaving us with shoddy health care and depleted state funds.

 

[Thruth]

Kensington Market is a bit Bohemian for you.

You can't meet my needs. Lot of you spoiled the world - drawing on defined benefit pensions and leaving us with shoddy health care and depleted state funds.

No, bohemian is fine. These were not bohemian types. Just self-absorbed fucktards. Very American Eagle/Abercrombie. Unless that passes for Bohemian in TO these days.

Wish I had a defined benefit pension. Sadly those disappeared long ago except for some union gigs.

Healthcare has gotten better so not sure what you are on about and your Baby Trudeau will deplete the coffers quite well. Just wait and see.

Don't want to meet your needs in life. You are doing just fine.

Just want to make it easier for you to navigate the forum. You know, trigger warnings, chastising members about microaggressions. Guaranteed "likes" just for posting.

 

[Fwiffo]

Just want to make it easier for you to navigate the forum. You know, trigger warnings, chastising members about microaggressions. Guaranteed "likes" just for posting.

I don't chastise anyone.

I do have a lot in common with the new President - I'm incredibly vain and sensitive to people's opinions of me. But that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

I just have to wait for April when some British CxO takes over in Germany and see where the dice roll. Hopefully ever upwards for me - excelsior. I make it sound like I'm waiting on death row but ironically I get paid for it.

 

[Monkeyface]

They've suspended fast track visa processing. Instead of having the lottery results in 15 days it could take up to 9 months now. There's a high chance this will cost me the job. Fuck

 

[Lord Buckley]

My understanding that it is very difficult for Brits to get Green Cards and has been for many years. Perhaps that's changed now? I didn't know there was fast track visa processing, but there are visa caps to the numbers issued each year.

You can get an L1-A or L-1B intercompany transfer relatively easily, it's what we use when needed.

 

[Monkeyface]

My understanding that it is very difficult for Brits to get Green Cards and has been for many years. Perhaps that's changed now? I didn't know there was fast track visa processing, but there are visa caps to the numbers issued each year.

You can get an L1-A or L-1B intercompany transfer relatively easily, it's what we use when needed.

I would be on H1B. Need to be sponsored by a company and gives 6 years of work authorisation and allows one to apply for a GC. Getting a GC only takes 2-3 years on H1B.

L1 is only possible after 12 months of working with a company. My current company doesn't have a California branch, so would have to move to NY instead, then get a green card, and then move to California. Would take about 4-5 years. Or switch to a company with a California branch, work for 12 months, and then switch on L1. It's a big ask though, and no company is going to guarantee you can move in 12 months, so it's moot.

It's pretty big news though. It's a sneaky way of dismantling the programme, effectively ending legal immigration of high skilled labour.

 

[Lord Buckley]

The process has always been at this level of robustness and you mentioned the lottery aspect too. So you could lose on the lottery i.e. by chance?

 

[Leitmotif]

Monkeyface why are you looking to move to the US? You are constantly complaining about this country, about how people cant dress for shit, how much of this country sucks for x number reasons. This is something you have been saying since you started posting in this forum. So please explain because you coming here is like a muslim or any other immigrant coming over that hates/dislikes the US. Also you have a lot of stereotypes about americans so makes me wonder.

 

[Monkeyface]

Monkeyface why are you looking to move to the US? You are constantly complaining about this country, about how people cant dress for shit, how much of this country sucks for x number reasons. This is something you have been saying since you started posting in this forum. So please explain because you coming here is like a muslim or any other immigrant coming over that hates/dislikes the US. Also you have a lot of stereotypes about americans so makes me wonder.

Nono, that's just trolling my friend. You're just a rookie so I understand it can be hard for you to spot.

I love the US of A. It's been my favourite country ever since I visited NYC back in the 90s. Every time I go back I like it even more. It feels like coming home, more so than when I'm actually coming home.

 

[Leitmotif]

Dont worry, I dont work for Immigration so you dont have to bullshit me, I did get a job offer and I plan to take it later on. Again, please do tell because I dont buy it. Is it only money that you are willing to move over here? Because to me, thats what it sounds like. Monkeyface

 

[Monkeyface]

The process has always been at this level of robustness and you mentioned the lottery aspect too. So you could lose on the lottery i.e. by chance?

It's been a lottery since 2011, when applications first exceeded the nr of spots. Applications have been increasing ever since, with 2016 seeing 233k for 65k spots. 65k isn't terribly much for a country with 300mio people. Even the UK has like 600k immigrants every year. It's a purely random selection, not based on merit.