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Fwiffo

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where in those states? and is it the same job with the same pay and benefits?

For the US I don’t know as I didn’t ask my boss. Likely only the VA one is the same title and job. Pay will be higher in the US. I don’t know the pay structure in Europe or Asia.

Other than Chicago nowhere urban. Unless I like wine country or hunting and shooting.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Although my company has operations in EMEA - this friendly was only responsible for Europe so for me no option for Dubai.

My role becomes regionalised by next summer. Too many of us CxOs around so they want to reduce overhead and have one person for Americas. The subsidiary I am attached to was also struggling financially and because of the current coronavirus rubbish, the friendly hinted we may be looking at offloading underperforming units so I am guessing if I stay in that situation I would be thrown overboard and become a corpse bouncing off the hull. There are only two remaining entities in other lines of businesses in my country and they are too small to ingest someone like me so I was basically told if I want to stay with the group, I need to leave Canada.

I was also advised to check with my boss but I had never considered a post in the US because I assumed my boss would return to Europe one day. I didn't fancy being around when a new regime takes over and I exist only because of the old regime. The choices would be VA, MN, IL, and CA.

I would avoid Dubai unless all other reasonable options fail. Double expensive to have a good time, 9 months of the year it's too hot to go outside and Indianization is in full effect.

Our industry's as bad. I see all my level jumping from one big classification body to the next with 18 months to bring in work that isn't there, or marketing bespoke remote headsets that you can get better off the shelf and then when the 30% profit doesn't come in they're on gardening leave for 3 months and move to the next one. Rinse and repeat. Then you have the slick Indian spivs taking over the pre-eminent body in our sector and turning it into a tick-box Indian visa friendly worker dumbed-down lets coordinate 24 hours from Mumbai fiasco. Utterly demoralizing....unless you're raging against the dying of the light.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Getting ugly out there in the Dutch oil & gas sector. Layoffs coming thick and fast, departments losing 50% of staff. The requests for ''substantial'' reductions in contract rates. Been here before, but not when rates are already depressed. At least I've got my ''Eco-Solutions'' biomass friendly project division getting a cut of the subsidies. Thanks a bunch, St Greta and noble tax payers!
 

Fwiffo

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Getting ugly out there in the Dutch oil & gas sector. Layoffs coming thick and fast, departments losing 50% of staff. The requests for ''substantial'' reductions in contract rates. Been here before, but not when rates are already depressed. At least I've got my ''Eco-Solutions'' biomass friendly project division getting a cut of the subsidies. Thanks a bunch, St Greta and noble tax payers!

Except if you are me and you are stuck with your internals. The externals were already made redundant back in March, and I have a handful left. I already squeezed all the agencies down to $4 or $5 admin fee per head as a 2020 new year's resolution so further rate reductions would hit the external contractor directly. I'd get rid of them but I have a host of internals that can't do these special assignments.
 

Fwiffo

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I get so many equivalents to cold calls on LinkedIn I have stopped responding or even accepting new connections. When I do see someone I want to accept I then accept a batch of them. Does anyone respond to random LinkedIn messages?

I do use it to keep in touch with ex work colleagues just to bypass the spam filters of e-mail these days.
 

Thruth

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I get so many equivalents to cold calls on LinkedIn I have stopped responding or even accepting new connections. When I do see someone I want to accept I then accept a batch of them. Does anyone respond to random LinkedIn messages?

I do use it to keep in touch with ex work colleagues just to bypass the spam filters of e-mail these days.

No I don’t respond. Why would I if I don’t know them and they are angling for a job? In my case they are from abroad and do not have the qualifications or they are trying to sell something.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I get so many equivalents to cold calls on LinkedIn I have stopped responding or even accepting new connections. When I do see someone I want to accept I then accept a batch of them. Does anyone respond to random LinkedIn messages?

I do use it to keep in touch with ex work colleagues just to bypass the spam filters of e-mail these days.

I just get them in my email box. 100's from the Indian sub-continent, scattered all around the globe.
 

Fwiffo

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It looks like I'm getting a new boss soon.

Although my boss and boss' boss are still around. I can't really escape their tribe.
 

Fwiffo

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I haven't used LinkedIn for months and I have 133 outstanding connection requests. I accept one of them and immediately the person messages back months later. I reckon that has to be a chat bot or something.

I ignored anyone wanting to discuss buying something. I have no money. And in the end just started accepting the women with hot profile photographs. Then one of them says I'm a 36 year old Malaysian professional woman working for XX in YY foreign country.

Who introduces themselves like that in a professional setting?
 

Fwiffo

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its all just one form or another of selling yourself. tits or a resume, you're still prostituting yourself in an effort to get money.

We traded a few messages on how we got into our respective industries and then she insisted on taking the conversation to WhatsApp. I said why? She said something about being able to talk due to xyz conditions and I said if I don't go, whose loss is that? She admitted hers. Conversation went silent after that.
 

Rambo

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We traded a few messages on how we got into our respective industries and then she insisted on taking the conversation to WhatsApp. I said why? She said something about being able to talk due to xyz conditions and I said if I don't go, whose loss is that? She admitted hers. Conversation went silent after that.
she's a lady of the night
 

Dropbear

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I’m working on getting international certification to add to my local certification. Mostly just to add some more letters after my name, since I’m not planning to move anytime soon.

I passed the exam this week and will start the essay soon. The biggest chunk of effort is documenting all of the training, professional contributions and experience. Just the sheer, tedious work of collecting all that is enough to put most people off.

Right now I’m drafting a letter of recommendation for my boss. The second reference will be a bit more challenging - I can either go to an old boss or get a peer from another agency to write it. Maybe I’ll hit up my friend with the US Marshal’s service. I think the Coast Guard and military have too many restrictions and red tape for their people to write references.
 
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Pimpernel Smith

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I’m working on getting international certification to add to my local certification. Mostly just to add some more letters after my name, since I’m not planning to move anytime soon.

I passed the exam this week and will start the essay soon. The biggest chunk of effort is documenting all of the training, professional contributions and experience. Just the sheer, tedious work of collecting all that is enough to put most people off.

Right now I’m drafting a letter of recommendation for my boss. The second reference will be a bit more challenging - I can either go to an old boss or get a peer from another agency to write it. Maybe I’ll hit up my friend with the US Marshal’s service. I think the Coast Guard and military have too many restrictions and red tape for their people to write references.

Internationally recognized qualifications and licenses are of course, the way to go. My industry is very much focused on engineering degrees and/or licensed qualifications that are valid for certain time frames and need to be maintained.

I do references for ex-employees who are going for chartered engineering status. Some are a real pain to do in terms of input, you'll need to spend a couple of hours filling in the forms and essay length responses. But mainly it boils down to a question of character and ethics. Sadly, after all of that, very rarely once you've batted for them, does the candidate come back and thank you.
 

fxh

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Dont people just ring someone and have a conversation about the applicant anymore?
 

Fwiffo

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I have a date. 3rd December.
When I do this all day test with an external company to qualify for the same position I already have.
 

Fwiffo

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That sounds dreadful. Don't they yet know that your reputation proceeds you?

Precedes you mean. Proceed means I ought to do the test.

It's a test to rate me as a potential executive. Problem is I'm already an executive hired from the street so the exercise is a bit tiresome.

Business case exercise. Then some interviews. Role play some people management issue. Group exercise and another interview. Then I get a rating - pass, develop further and pass - sod off and come back in a few years.

And the lovely thing is I was supposed to fly to headquarters for this. Now it starts at 8 CET virtually so that means I have to drag myself to attend at 2a local time. Ends 1800 CET. This use to be a 2 day in person affair.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Precedes you mean. Proceed means I ought to do the test.

It's a test to rate me as a potential executive. Problem is I'm already an executive hired from the street so the exercise is a bit tiresome.

Business case exercise. Then some interviews. Role play some people management issue. Group exercise and another interview. Then I get a rating - pass, develop further and pass - sod off and come back in a few years.

And the lovely thing is I was supposed to fly to headquarters for this. Now it starts at 8 CET virtually so that means I have to drag myself to attend at 2a local time. Ends 1800 CET. This use to be a 2 day in person affair.

Yes, you're quite correct, I meant ''precedes''.

With the way things are in my business sector, there's not the organisation or will to conduct such an in-depth selection procedure. The whole industry is reverting/evolving into small and agile business units. I reckon a simple ''I don't need a PA and I can come in on Saturdays to shred my own paper work...'' would be sufficient to clinch the detail.
 
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güero

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It's a test to rate me as a potential executive. Problem is I'm already an executive hired from the street so the exercise is a bit tiresome.
The only time I've ever had people evaluated externally for their current position, is when looking for justifications to get rid of them.
 

Fwiffo

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The only time I've ever had people evaluated externally for their current position, is when looking for justifications to get rid of them.

My position is redundant in 10 months. It devolves into 3 or 4 roles.

That said I got nominated for this because my previous boss wanted me to take his position. His role doesn't exist too but he has moved up whereas I'm minding the troublesome shop that no one wants to fly here to do.
 

formby002

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Dont people just ring someone and have a conversation about the applicant anymore?

It depends who is giving the nod on recruitment. If it has to go through HR, then no.

When I was involved in recruiting, which in my case was mainly contractors, if I didn't know the contractor I would often just ring up their ex-gaffer(s) (who sometimes I knew personally) for a chat. If I knew the contractor I didn't bother and just gave the nod.

Lots of firms won't give written references due to potential legal problems (libel), they'll just provide bare bones info: time with company, positions held &c.
 
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fxh

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I've had to remind HR at times its me (or delegated managers) who hire not HR - they do the paperwork etc

Written references here are now pretty standard - So and so has worked here etc.

I always like to say - "OK thanks for the referees you've given me but can we talk and find someone we know in common who I can chat to"
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It depends who is giving the nod on recruitment. If it has to go through HR, then no.

When I was involved in recruiting, which in my case was mainly contractors, if I didn't know the contractor I would often just ring up their ex-gaffer(s) (who sometimes I knew personally) for a chat. If I knew the contractor I didn't bother and just gave the nod.

Lots of firms won't give written references due to potential legal problems (libel), they'll just provide bare bones info: time with company, positions held &c.

That is pretty much spot on. CV's of unknowns is just a gamble. If they're in the business, known quantities amongst your contemporaries or your rivals that lessons the risk significantly. I only take punts on sure things. Well kind of.

Written references are pretty much dead. A simple phone call is all you need to those they've worked with before

A CV landed on my desk this week, an ex-colleague recommended them to contact me. There's a contract I will likely get next week - fingers crossed - and unless she comes across as a weirdo freak in the interview she's got the lead position.

My interview technique isn't your standard HR malarkey. If you've got the credentials, not from diploma mills, forged or photocopied and pasted from your daughter's engineering degree, or vast fictional revision of CV's over the years, then you're basically past the first post with me.

Depending on role: I'm interested in how you engage, work ethic, ethics in general and can you cope with volumes of emails/requests, data, reporting and be an ambassador for the organization, project and yourself. And does the work scope interest you?

A great many people don't come across well in formal interviews with those stock questions: ''What's your greatest strength?'' and ''What's your greatest weakness?''. I ask general questions on specific experiences on projects, working in diverse teams and why they're interested in this work. If it's only money, then you know they're chasing it and will jump ship as soon as the next thing smoking arrives.

I want to get to the real person and you can only do that by making them feel ultra-comfortable in your presence.

Our South African office is big, or was on those personality tests. Total waste of time. You can fake it. They had someone they employed from Germany in an executive position and when the US shareholders and bankers met this guy they were totally underwhelmed. He lasted a couple of months after threatening the female office staff, etc.
 

Fwiffo

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I want to get to the real person and you can only do that by making them feel ultra-comfortable in your presence.

Which is why I am surprised anyone is making serious hires these days doing interviews purely over the telephone or video.
 

Fwiffo

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I'm supposed to take this Abstract Reasoning and Ability Test. In the dry run I scored 3 of 12 mostly because I see no reason why my job is related to deciphering weird shapes.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Which is why I am surprised anyone is making serious hires these days doing interviews purely over the telephone or video.

Not a great time to be taking on new hires, to get them inducted and inculcated into the organizational culture, only for them to sit at home on the new company laptop waiting for esprit de corps.

I'm supposed to take this Abstract Reasoning and Ability Test. In the dry run I scored 3 of 12 mostly because I see no reason why my job is related to deciphering weird shapes.

What kind of dumb madness is that? Results dear boy, that's what counts.
 

Fwiffo

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What kind of dumb madness is that? Results dear boy, that's what counts.

Tell that to the third party firm they hired as examiners. There are 3 tests I have to do before tomorrow. Abstract Reasoning, Personality questionnaire, Motivational driver questionnaire.

Then next week is the full 10 hour exam. 90 minute break throughout.
 

fxh

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I'm supposed to take this Abstract Reasoning and Ability Test. In the dry run I scored 3 of 12 mostly because I see no reason why my job is related to deciphering weird shapes.
I don’t understand why you are doing this. Arent you a person with a work history that can be checked? WTF will some barely scientific test add?
 

Fwiffo

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A 10 hour exam?! About what?

Frankly, that sounds ridiculous.

Individual business case exercise. Personality interview. Motivation interview. Role play people management scenario. Group business case exercise. Third party interview with a board member in observation. Reflections/retrospective.

It was supposed to be a 2 day in person affair but is now virtual. Also due to the time difference 2am-12pm local time.


I don’t understand why you are doing this. Arent you a person with a work history that can be checked? WTF will some barely scientific test add?

My role is made redundant next year. It's an executive position. Passing this test means I qualify (but does not guarantee) for an executive position in another part of the company which in my case is in another country because of lack of executive roles here.

I'm self taught. I have lowly Hon. BA which is far fewer abbreviations than my MBA, MA, multiple doctorate peers have so I am not really used to tests and exercises.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Individual business case exercise. Personality interview. Motivation interview. Role play people management scenario. Group business case exercise. Third party interview with a board member in observation. Reflections/retrospective.

It was supposed to be a 2 day in person affair but is now virtual. Also due to the time difference 2am-12pm local time.

My role is made redundant next year. It's an executive position. Passing this test means I qualify (but does not guarantee) for an executive position in another part of the company which in my case is in another country because of lack of executive roles here.

I'm self taught. I have lowly Hon. BA which is far fewer abbreviations than my MBA, MA, multiple doctorate peers have so I am not really used to tests and exercises.

I'm always intrigued by highly credentialed individuals, where do they get the time if they're working?
 

Fwiffo

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Update to my saga.

It looks like the US is not an option and I have an option for Paris or check on the friendly co-worker overseas for a position in Munich.

US was a bit easier as I could have flown home on Fridays and had a midday start to Mondays.

I do have options but I keep turning them down - such as some regional role in charge of regulatory and compliance which is not my forte and comes with little to no direct reports.

I'm told if I don't accept one of these by the end of mid year I will have to look outside.
 
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