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Rambo

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I was going to walk out a week or two ago and say here's my month's notice and I'm happy to work it for free. I have enough money for awhile. I forgot who on this forum suggested I go unplug on some uninhabited island somewhere helping sea turtles or something for six months.
If you’re not willing to walk tomorrow at the drop of a hat then you’re Not willing to walk.

Buy yes, you should go travel the world before it’s all on fire or underwater.
 

Journeyman

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No stupid you do the work because they give you the money. Stop with this self-aggrandizing bullshit about how above it all you are. Unless you’d do the job for free then shut up and take the money.

+1.
...it was seen as slightly dodgy for a man to take a sabbatical to find themselves and go and count the pink dolphins of the upper reaches the Amazon. When I see a CV where it states ''I took a well deserved year off...'' and then they tell you what they did, in the English vernacular, I reach for my spew bucket. Real men don't do that kind of shit. That's just the way it is.

That may be the reality, but it's really rather sad.

We have so very many people who have been effectively brainwashed to live to work, rather than work to live. After a few decades of respite following WWII, where living standards improved significantly throughout much of the Western world, we plunged headlong into a situation where putting in long hours is romanticised and you're expected to forego holidays, family time and dinners with the family so that you can make a few extra dollars for your employer.
 

Fwiffo

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You forgot the 'brainwash' also gives the labourer a sense of accomplishment even if it is counting chickens or money on behalf of the corporation.
 

Rambo

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You forgot the 'brainwash' also gives the labourer a sense of accomplishment even if it is counting chickens or money on behalf of the corporation.
no. no one gets "accomplishment" from their job. they get "accomplishment" from their pay check. this is some manager mindset bullshit.
 

Dropbear

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That's seems just bizarre - why would you monitor computers - is tapping the space bar work?

Isn't there any actual output measures? Like getting the job done

Mouse jiggling works:

Original U.S. Made Mouse Mover/Jiggler with Random Left/Right, On/Off Mouse Movement, Cannot be Tracked.... Freedom! Designed, Assembled in U.S. Help Support US Business.
 

fxh

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Mouse jiggling works:

Original U.S. Made Mouse Mover/Jiggler with Random Left/Right, On/Off Mouse Movement, Cannot be Tracked.... Freedom! Designed, Assembled in U.S. Help Support US Business.
Reminds me of the good old days with the emergency spreadsheet button.

and the old trick of using the Home Screen as a screensaver and set it on someone’s computer so when they click all over nothing happens.
 

Fwiffo

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In the end the choices are junior level executive in Minneapolis with one manager reporting in and a ten person team plus some vendors that do the work. Except I'm confused why I am in Minneapolis given I only go to the office once a week and the rest is remote work. There is P&L ownership for something 3 times the peak of what I managed but fewer people and a lower title.

The other is I get to stay here and work on rolling out something that was 1/4 of my remit when I joined this company. No budget much less P&L ownership. They said they'd work on the title. No people management except maybe I can add one or two external contractors to help once things get going next year.

All starts January or I wait for the Mission Impossible envelope to blow up.
 

Dropbear

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Shit, sorry mate. Titles and number of reports don’t matter if the pay is the same, but a choice of staying in small town Canada or Minnesota sucks. I thought there was a chance you could get posted somewhere nicer?
 

Fwiffo

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Shit, sorry mate. Titles and number of reports don’t matter if the pay is the same, but a choice of staying in small town Canada or Minnesota sucks. I thought there was a chance you could get posted somewhere nicer?

Opportunity 1: If Minneapolis wasn't working out, I was offered by the guy in Italy a similar chance in Asia Pacific. Because APAC is where you want to be...

Opportunity 2: Well, the office is in a small town but we're all working remotely now so I have a hot desk 15 minutes away from where I live. After I finish with Canada for a year or two then it's off to fixing Australia and then Brazil...it's a go do something job. 2 contractors - I was doing that 3 years out of uni when we sacked the management in London and I was handling the leftovers before we moved on to the next office.
 

The Ernesto

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After I finish with Canada for a year or two then it's off to fixing Australia

one of us GIF
 

Rambo

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In the end the choices are junior level executive in Minneapolis with one manager reporting in and a ten person team plus some vendors that do the work. Except I'm confused why I am in Minneapolis given I only go to the office once a week and the rest is remote work. There is P&L ownership for something 3 times the peak of what I managed but fewer people and a lower title.

The other is I get to stay here and work on rolling out something that was 1/4 of my remit when I joined this company. No budget much less P&L ownership. They said they'd work on the title. No people management except maybe I can add one or two external contractors to help once things get going next year.

All starts January or I wait for the Mission Impossible envelope to blow up.
what's the pay and benefits for each situation?
 

Fwiffo

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Given you don't have a spouse and children...how soon can you retire and stop dealing with the corporate nonsense?

My plan was to do a high pressure high profile job for another 3 years then come back to my hometown and join a small 200-300 person company as executive for 4 years. Then I wanted to see what I can do in politics for public service.

I don't think it's nonsense. It's politics and unfortunately I am on the wrong end of history as part of this wave of regime change.
 

Fwiffo

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what's the pay and benefits for each situation?

I didn't answer your previous question because it's not what motivates me. I'll gladly take a 50 percent pay cut for a position where the responsibilities and duties match where I want my career trajectory to go.

Other than dental cleaning and my tardy eye exam and prescription glasses I don't use any. I'm sure someone else is using my share or the company is saving money on my lack of benefit claims.
 

Journeyman

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You forgot the 'brainwash' also gives the labourer a sense of accomplishment even if it is counting chickens or money on behalf of the corporation.

no. no one gets "accomplishment" from their job. they get "accomplishment" from their pay check. this is some manager mindset bullshit.

It is possible to get a sense of accomplishment from your job.

However, you can also get a sense of accomplishment from many other things - family, sports, hobbies and so on.

I know I've mentioned it here before, but my dad had to leave school at the age of 12 and do an apprenticeship as a fitter and turner. He didn't like being a metalworker, but that was his job so he did it. Of course, this was decades before people started talking about how you should have a job with meaning, or do a job that you love. He did his job because he had to earn money to support himself and his family, and that was it. Rather than looking for meaning in his work, he found meaning in spending time with his family, growing fruit trees and hibiscus bushes, and (rather badly) practicing carpentry.

This idea of needing to find meaningful work, and finding a job that you love, has really only cropped up over the past 30 - 40 years and seems to come mainly from the US. To be frank, I can't help but think that it's reflexive reaction to the capitalist drive to get us to work more and more - it makes it socially acceptable to sacrifice yourself for work. "It's OK - I love what I do! Really, I do!"

Edited to add:

Here's an interesting article on people who are making sure that they *don't* sacrifice their lives for the benefit of faceless corporations:

 

güero

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It is possible to get a sense of accomplishment from your job.

However, you can also get a sense of accomplishment from many other things - family, sports, hobbies and so on.

I know I've mentioned it here before, but my dad had to leave school at the age of 12 and do an apprenticeship as a fitter and turner. He didn't like being a metalworker, but that was his job so he did it. Of course, this was decades before people started talking about how you should have a job with meaning, or do a job that you love. He did his job because he had to earn money to support himself and his family, and that was it. Rather than looking for meaning in his work, he found meaning in spending time with his family, growing fruit trees and hibiscus bushes, and (rather badly) practicing carpentry.

This idea of needing to find meaningful work, and finding a job that you love, has really only cropped up over the past 30 - 40 years and seems to come mainly from the US. To be frank, I can't help but think that it's reflexive reaction to the capitalist drive to get us to work more and more - it makes it socially acceptable to sacrifice yourself for work. "It's OK - I love what I do! Really, I do!"

Edited to add:

Here's an interesting article on people who are making sure that they *don't* sacrifice their lives for the benefit of faceless corporations:

The entire concept of „accomplishment“ as usually understood is neoliberal propaganda.

Fwiffo Fwiffo keep in mind your insurance shack is not going to wipe your butt when you’re 85.
 

Dropbear

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i definitely get a lot of satisfaction and sense of accomplishment from my job. There is also a fair share of bullshit I have to deal with as well though. If I won the lotto, I’m honestly not sure if in would quit.

My boss is essentially working for free though - she could retire any time and qualify for a 100% pension with full benefits.

You can usually chose between a job you enjoy with shit pay or a sucky job with good pay or perks. I chose what I do over selling insurance, but I won’t be getting rich any time soon.
 

Fwiffo

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The entire concept of „accomplishment“ as usually understood is neoliberal propaganda.

Fwiffo Fwiffo keep in mind your insurance shack is not going to wipe your butt when you’re 85.

Two things. I wasn't planning to live that long. Second I have always maintained that people can be tricked into being loyal to organisations but organisations are never loyal to people.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It is possible to get a sense of accomplishment from your job.

However, you can also get a sense of accomplishment from many other things - family, sports, hobbies and so on.

I know I've mentioned it here before, but my dad had to leave school at the age of 12 and do an apprenticeship as a fitter and turner. He didn't like being a metalworker, but that was his job so he did it. Of course, this was decades before people started talking about how you should have a job with meaning, or do a job that you love. He did his job because he had to earn money to support himself and his family, and that was it. Rather than looking for meaning in his work, he found meaning in spending time with his family, growing fruit trees and hibiscus bushes, and (rather badly) practicing carpentry.

This idea of needing to find meaningful work, and finding a job that you love, has really only cropped up over the past 30 - 40 years and seems to come mainly from the US. To be frank, I can't help but think that it's reflexive reaction to the capitalist drive to get us to work more and more - it makes it socially acceptable to sacrifice yourself for work. "It's OK - I love what I do! Really, I do!"

Edited to add:

Here's an interesting article on people who are making sure that they *don't* sacrifice their lives for the benefit of faceless corporations:

But creating dioramas of D-Day landings isn't necessarily going to cover all the bases is it?

I bet your father had great camaraderie and esprit de corps with his work mates.

Early in my career I worked with welders and they have the fancy patter. And it's by no no accident several Brit comedians are former welders e.g. Billy Connolly.

One of the poets I really dig is Fred Voss who's created alienated blue collar poetry from being a machine shop lathe operator.

Unless you've inherited wealth, work is necessary and if you can, enjoy it, don't make it a misery for pride reasons.
i definitely get a lot of satisfaction and sense of accomplishment from my job. There is also a fair share of bullshit I have to deal with as well though. If I won the lotto, I’m honestly not sure if in would quit.
You'll notice a lot of agile older people work as long as possible. That's not necessarily true for certain manual trades. And you also have to factor in all the new technology stuff, but unless you're seriously rich and/or several grand kids to look after, what exactly are you going to do with retirement?
 

Dropbear

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You'll notice a lot of agile older people work as long as possible. That's not necessarily true for certain manual trades. And you also have to factor in all the new technology stuff, but unless you're seriously rich and/or several grand kids to look after, what exactly are you going to do with retirement?

It’s all rather silly and speculative, since I don’t gamble and never buy lottery tickets …. but I still occasionally ask myself if I would quit if money wasn’t an issue. I enjoy my work and I get satisfaction from public service, but there are definitely times I wish I was doing something else.

I wish I had more time to spend with my kids while they are still young and I’d love to travel, but I don’t think that would be satisfying enough so I’d want more. I have no interest in starting a business empire if I’d already made money. I might want to start a charity to support some of the causes I care about, but I think I would probably stay working in my current job.

It’s a good thought exercise when things are getting tough at work.
 

Fwiffo

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Formally declined the Minneapolis post.

Honestly I am glad no one is trying anymore to invent a position for me so they can all move on and I can work on moving out.

Now I just have to make the two milestone dates and see if I'm not leaving before the retention bonus. Of course I could always ask the other party to make it a signing bonus.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It’s all rather silly and speculative, since I don’t gamble and never buy lottery tickets …. but I still occasionally ask myself if I would quit if money wasn’t an issue. I enjoy my work and I get satisfaction from public service, but there are definitely times I wish I was doing something else.

I wish I had more time to spend with my kids while they are still young and I’d love to travel....
Back in the 90s there was a guy we worked with who had made a lot of money post first Gulf war and we were what are you doing this shit for if you don't have to do it? Well, if you don't have to do it, you have an edge that desperate salary men don't have. So you can do it with ease.

I've traveled a lot in my career, the old adage that oil & gas was the working man's rock and roll was pretty much true. Haven't made it to Japan or Australia, yet, but everywhere else I've wanted to go I've been. And it's so much better on the company pay cheque.

My sector has changed in the last 7-8 years and the digitilization/Industry 4.0 has already eliminated a lot of over head positions. But all it does is create more work and responsibilities. It doesn't create more leisure time. And you end up with long term salary people who you can't get rid of and who aren't capable in the new reality and you end up having to cover for them which I am having to do now. And that will eventually grate. Like I posted on another thread, people who can't populate a simple database correctly who are on €100,000+ a year. FFS. I don't want that shit.

I'm thinking now it's time to move on. The hydrogen projects are starting to come on line and The Hague is a center for that, and all the skills and technology in metallurgy are readily transferable. 3-4 of those projects will take me to retirement and it will be a lot less stress for starters.

The kids thing is important and then you're dealing with the teenage stuff. It all ends rather sheer and sudden and the little babies have gone for good.
 

Fwiffo

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It finally went out today. The transition and handover is complete for my role. New people take over and I sit around answering questions as professor emeritus.

Although realistically I am finishing up the cut over for the deals we won in the summer for another month.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It finally went out today. The transition and handover is complete for my role. New people take over and I sit around answering questions as professor emeritus.

Although realistically I am finishing up the cut over for the deals we won in the summer for another month.
Have you got a new employer now?
 

Pimpernel Smith

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No. Although I started considering being a random executive amongst many outside of financial services.
Depends how old you are, it gets more difficult to reinvent yourself or jump to new disciplines or industries as you get to my age i.e. 50. Even if those skills are likely transferable.

There's a bit of a merry-go-around in my sector. Directors who don't perform moving from one body and organisation to the next. One of our clients has a management day, now by Webex, anyway there's an English chap who's jumped ship a few times these last six years. Very eloquent, and our Eastern Division really dig-him, but it's exactly the same marketing spin from one organisation to the next. As was proven last week. That lack of attention to differentiating one organisation culture to the next, shows a lack of awareness. I would never make that mistake. The savvy clients are not so dumb either.
 

Journeyman

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There's a bit of a merry-go-around in my sector. Directors who don't perform moving from one body and organisation to the next. One of our clients has a management day, now by Webex, anyway there's an English chap who's jumped ship a few times these last six years. Very eloquent, and our Eastern Division really dig-him, but it's exactly the same marketing spin from one organisation to the next. As was proven last week. That lack of attention to differentiating one organisation culture to the next, shows a lack of awareness.

I think that this is essentially modern management theory over the past few decades, though - the idea that if you can be a manager at one place, you can be a manager anywhere. It doesn't matter what the business does, or what the business is like, what form its corporate culture takes - if you are a manager of one place you can go and manage another.

Frankly, I think it's an utter load of rubbish and can really ruin a place, but regrettably it seems to be a popular theory of management.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I think that this is essentially modern management theory over the past few decades, though - the idea that if you can be a manager at one place, you can be a manager anywhere. It doesn't matter what the business does, or what the business is like, what form its corporate culture takes - if you are a manager of one place you can go and manage another.

Frankly, I think it's an utter load of rubbish and can really ruin a place, but regrettably it seems to be a popular theory of management.
I think there's less of that to a certain extent now. MBA's without it being a bolt-on to an already established career and technical prowess isn't going to guarantee you a 100 grand plus job now.

I've always had the position that people underestimate cultural differences in offices and organisations. As an example, there's massive differences between the work culture in the oil majors. You may be technically brilliant and have a tremendous work ethic but not fit in with the expected coporate manners, language, expected deference to line manages and projected professional face of the company. It can be extremely stifling if you're not pragmatic enough to fit in. But you could go to a competitor and fit in perfectly.
 

Fwiffo

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One of our clients is putting a block of the business they have with us out for general RFP. As incumbents we have to respond to retain the business. I'm told not to respond to my part and not to help one of my eight successors even though I may know some if not all of the answers in spite of the fact I wasn't around to win the business in the first place.

Now I know I'm a corpse banging on the side of a ship's hull.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Now I know I'm a corpse banging on the side of a ship's hull.
Why won't they let you do a bit of gardening leave, well in your case, JW and excellent home cooking leave instead?

We've had someone working their notice, who was meant to be doing a handover, give the phone and laptop back early and announced if you want me to do anything, give it to me in writing.

The best move is always, notice in, immediately march out the door, preferably with security.
 

Fwiffo

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Why won't they let you do a bit of gardening leave, well in your case, JW and excellent home cooking leave instead?

We've had someone working their notice, who was meant to be doing a handover, give the phone and laptop back early and announced if you want me to do anything, give it to me in writing.

The best move is always, notice in, immediately march out the door, preferably with security.

Because they find me valuable and started inventing strange obtuse roles for me and I ended one internal interview with I'm happy to help and share how I would tackle the problem you're facing. The next day he told a few people welcome to the team and I'm visiting Vienna. There wasn't a yes/no offer.

Besides being told to shut up for the RFP, to deflect and play pedantic bureaucratic games on doing a geo-location mobile insurance pilot next year, I was told my hand over of my remaining financial authority is 1st Jan. Problem is I told them people are already asking about increased spending, extension of contractors and other changes that will put you in a hole in 2022. It doesn't neatly end on the 31st Dec and then all new inquiries go to the successors. Then the successors with the big four consultancy hummed and said this wasn't anticipated in the transition meetings....that I wasn't party to so now they have to discuss this newfound information.

I don't have a garden clause but I have some non compete and don't poach people in my contract.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Because they find me valuable and started inventing strange obtuse roles for me and I ended one internal interview with I'm happy to help and share how I would tackle the problem you're facing. The next day he told a few people welcome to the team and I'm visiting Vienna. There wasn't a yes/no offer.

Besides being told to shut up for the RFP, to deflect and play pedantic bureaucratic games on doing a geo-location mobile insurance pilot next year, I was told my hand over of my remaining financial authority is 1st Jan. Problem is I told them people are already asking about increased spending, extension of contractors and other changes that will put you in a hole in 2022. It doesn't neatly end on the 31st Dec and then all new inquiries go to the successors. Then the successors with the big four consultancy hummed and said this wasn't anticipated in the transition meetings....that I wasn't party to so now they have to discuss this newfound information.

I don't have a garden clause but I have some non compete and don't poach people in my contract.
Sign everything off up to your authority, unless it's blatantly bent. Clear your desk well beforehand, no personal photos or Kinder Surprise toys.

Everyone I know in that situation is already aligned with their next employer. I suggest you do the same. You don't have to start working for them, but you can be ready at the allotted date and time.
 
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