The All-Inclusive Shoe & Boot Thread

The Shooman

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This is a beauty, and it is my top GYW video. It's really good we have this on film now. Bravo!
Steve at Bedo's confirms that gemming failure is common!
When l asked if he sees gemming failure he said "I’ve seen it come apart on Allen Edmonds a lot. Not the entire area but at flex point".

Steve is a good cobbler, and good cobblers always report the same thing. When asked about gemming failure they say:

"it happens all the time"
"it is common"
"I’ve seen it come apart on Allen Edmonds a lot"
 

The Shooman

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hello alden friends, are you happy with the crap on your feet, I hope so ..., hehe

#alden #aldenarmy #crap
https://authenticfit.net/2019/01/24...TvTlpiv5UnUciIVXC1UuJ1qlzrv2x4RlRYoyWCwrHpepc

go and share with the alden army, a bunch of mofo's, cowards and the bottom of society, period.

ps: I'm so glad it came from a neutral party, can't stop laughing ...
Some shoemakers don't even call the heels used in most midend shoes leather. Some call them compressed cardboard or compressed paper. However it is a shock to hear that Alden do use this material for their midsoles. So yes, under that rendenbach leather can be compressed paper.

Goodyear welted construction is not made to last
I also asked Steve if he ever comes across shoes where the gemming tape and plastic feather have rotted?

His answer was "It goes happen, if a boot/shoe got wet over time and eventually it will fail. I’ll try to incorporate that onto my next video".

So when those style forum girls tell you gemming failure is rare and that it is not a practical problem and only a theory, don't believe them! ALL the good industry people acknowledge the problem. Canvass and plastic is not made to last, especially when water gets in.


Allen Edmonds and the paper heels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvjfSIkET70&t=338s

Toni Lama boots and the broken paper heel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EznZU2qYvYE (a great video)



I remember in the 90's I had a a heel on a pair of $600 boots crack. The shoemaker who repaired them said the heel had cardboard in it and created a weak spot in the shoe where it cracked.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Alden's over here now will cost you over Euros 650++800++1000:

https://www.shoesandshirts.nl/shoes...MIxIjg56iQ4QIVU-d3Ch0LLgWMEAAYASAAEgIzY_D_BwE

https://www.fransboonestore.com/collections/alden

Way overpriced. I've the bluchers with the crepe soles in black and brown, chukkas in snuff suede, a derby in country grain with oiled leather sole and the traditional saddle oxford in cordovan #8. Had the long wings and they didn't last 2 years. All the shoes that remain I only use in the summer months with the exception of the trad saddle oxford which is their best shoe IMCO. The only one that can go head to head with the European players.
 

The Shooman

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The Shooman

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Here is a nice shoo documentary about Heinrich Dinkelacker. It's interesting to see how blokes over there like different styling to many in other parts of the world. I really like the Hungarian styling, l like the nice big meaty shoes built to last and for comfort with true manly presence. I like how they make shoes properly, but sadly these are machine lasted.


Nothing feels as comfortable and Vass, it's real luxury for the feet. I feel very lucky.
 

The Shooman

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The secret shoo world in Oz revisited

A man from the private shoo world in Oz. He trained with the mighty George Koleff and is possibly Australia's best bespoke maker. His clients are very limited. All of the top aussie bespoke makers work privately behind the scenes. One man was even a bespoke maker in Germany who used to make wood pegged shoes.

No nailed heels in this shoe. It is all hand welted and wood pegged. No rusting and ruining the integrity of the shoes. Utter class. He'll do 11 spi on the soles if requested, and he can do close cut waists that are wood pegged.

Mr J.H spec 1.jpg
Mr J.H spec 2.jpg
Mr J.H spec 3.jpg
Mr J.H spec 5.jpg
Mr J.H spec 6.jpg
Mr J.H spec 4.jpg
Mr J.H spec 7.jpg
 
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shookt

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Goodyear welted construction is not made to last
I also asked Steve if he ever comes across shoes where the gemming tape and plastic feather have rotted?

His answer was "It goes happen, if a boot/shoe got wet over time and eventually it will fail. I’ll try to incorporate that onto my next video".

So when those style forum girls tell you gemming failure is rare and that it is not a practical problem and only a theory, don't believe them! ALL the good industry people acknowledge the problem. Canvass and plastic is not made to last, especially when water gets in.
It makes me wonder how someone like B Nelson can claim that gemming failure is rare. That shoe shop must see thousands of 'high end GYW shoes' every year. His customers must really baby their shoes...or he doesn't truly understand what gemming failure is.
 

The Shooman

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It makes me wonder how someone like B Nelson can claim that gemming failure is rare. That shoe shop must see thousands of 'high end GYW shoes' every year. His customers must really baby their shoes...or he doesn't truly understand what gemming failure is.
Apparently many cobblers never report gemming failure either, but l am willing to bet that they don't strip back the cork to check. If you don't check for problems you remain ignorant of the problems imo.
 

The Shooman

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The secret shoo world in Oz revisited

A man from the private shoo world in Oz. He trained with the mighty George Koleff and is possibly Australia's best bespoke maker. His clients are very limited. All of the top aussie bespoke makers work privately behind the scenes. One man was even a bespoke maker in Germany who used to make wood pegged shoes.

No nailed heels in this shoe. It is all hand welted and wood pegged. No rusting and ruining the integrity of the shoes. Utter class. He'll do 11 spi on the soles if requested, and he can do close cut waists that are wood pegged.

View attachment 31803 View attachment 31804 View attachment 31805 View attachment 31807 View attachment 31808 View attachment 31806 View attachment 31809

Australia's bespoke shoemaking king, the mighty George Koleff.

The aussie born man who works in the private shoo world had a top notch teacher who was the Bulgarian master bespoke shoemaker, the mighty George Koleff who immigrated to Australia to live. Here is an internet first....the work of George Koleff whilst living in Oz. He trained many of Australia's best shoemakers, but the most lucky of them all was the man I quoted above who serves the private shoo world...he was George's assistant for many years so he learned many of the tricks in making bespoke shoes. Old guys used to make the occasional hand stitched boots in the old days such as Jess Wootten's dad (see pics of his hand stitched boots on the previous page) and his old work mate at Doc Cobblers, but none were as good as George apparently.






The man himself, the mighty George Koleff.
exotic guys
 
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The Shooman

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Australian shoemakers are rough and most are hopeless, so it is important to document some highlights of our cordwainer history which shows we weren't always hopeless.


George Koleff making a bespoke last in Australia
Look at this below! Fellow member fxh fxh sent me a hidden video of the mighty George Koleff making a bespoke last. See...he was like the top guys overseas, he did it all himself, he was a master! It's amazing to think that Australia actually had a master bespoke shoemaker not so many years ago. The way things are done in Oz is often quite different to how things are done overseas.


Here are some pictures of George's unique way of making a bespoke last.
George Koleff last 1.jpg
George Koleff last 2.jpg
George Koleff last 3.jpg
George Koleff last 4.jpg



Uses an axe to start shaping the last
George Koleff last 5.jpg



The last now taking shape
George Koleff last 6.jpg


George's finished bespoke lasts:
George Koleff last 7.jpg
George Koleff last 8.jpg


Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbc9FnmOKQY&feature=youtu.be
 

The Shooman

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George Koleff & my cordwainer John
one of the few masters of the hand constructed blake stitch


George Koleff was a very rare shoemaker in that he could do many constructions by hand. He was also one of the few masters who could do blake construction by hand like my shoemaker John used to do (John was a shoe stitch specialist in his day and hand stitched thousands of shoes). See...the issue with doing blake by hand is how does one get their hand inside the shoe to stitch the toe area...the hand can't get in that far, but George shows how he does it here.


George also used to do hand inseaming like my maker John without using a feather. All the overseas guys on youtube nearly all use a hand carved feather, but not the old guys in Oz. Look mum, no feather.
George Koleff no feather inseaming.jpg
 

walker

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It makes me wonder how someone like B Nelson can claim that gemming failure is rare. That shoe shop must see thousands of 'high end GYW shoes' every year. His customers must really baby their shoes...or he doesn't truly understand what gemming failure is.
because no one on styfo wants to hear it and/or is interested. he is more likely to lose business from those creeps.
 
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The Shooman

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Here is another internet first demonstrating the glorious history of aussie shoemaking. This is at a whole different level to what the public get exposed and have access to. The average public have shoes made that are rough as guts, but the guys that get all the good treatment never go to shops...instead they go to shoemaker's homes where the maker puts in extra time to do his best work. The maker never makes a profit, but he does it for the love of craftsmanship. The private shoo world will always be for `the few'. The private shoo world members NEVER advertise, and hardly anyone knows they exist.

Local aussie maker for the private shoo world:
(one of his first shoes ever)
Mr J.H 17.jpg


George Koleff shoes
George Koleff bespoke 3.jpg


Some private shoe world members at George's boot school in the old days
George Koleff boot school 1.jpg
 
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walker

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Sole and heel, but the shoe in general looked worn and beat. I don't expect that with shoes in that price range or supposed quality. I expect shoes to last for decades with some refurbishment.
exactly. consider, the so called alden army is a master level enabler for more purchases among the fanbois. I'm pretty sure, they know about the issues and they are among the protected posters on styfo, go figure. this is a very foul system, imo.
 

The Shooman

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I just happened to click on a random R.M.Williams resoling video and found this.

GEMMING FAILURE!!!



Here is another video of an Allen Edmonds resole by Bedo's leatherworks. Look, GEMMING FAILURE!!!


See....like the cobblers and factories have said, "it happens all the time" and "is common".
 
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fxh

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Shooey theres a bloke in Kew thats an accredited RMW refurbisher - he seems ok but I've never had anything done there.

I assume if hes trusted by RMWs he can't be too bad?
 

The Shooman

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Shooey theres a bloke in Kew thats an accredited RMW refurbisher - he seems ok but I've never had anything done there.

I assume if hes trusted by RMWs he can't be too bad?

Yeah, l am going to add him to the list of `aussie cobblers' soon. I had him restitch the soles on a pair of RMW boots 20 years ago. He is decent.

fxh fxh I never ceased to be surprised at how much you know. You seem to know all the blokes in Melbourne. You really get around.
 

The Shooman

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A top post about shoos from a Trickers worker.
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/threads/loake-shoes.79114/page-6#post-706225


One of the very best posts on English shoos
"EG and Lobbs shoes are more traditionally made than ours, they are bedlasted, pulled on by hand, Lobbs make 100 pairs per day, EG less, something between 20 and 50 per day, there are more man hours going into their shoes, more hand work at lasting, and a lot more time spent on finishing them after the shoe is constructed, they are more likely to use only the most expensive leathers as they can sell more of these at higher prices due to their name, and hand lasting methods, so yes, they are using better leathers than say 50% of other shoes being made elsewhere, but the price offsets this, the others are using these materials for their top lines only.

When you last by hand you can use more delicate leathers, if you put that same leather into a machine laster, you are inevitably going to have some damages, which costs money, so a more durable leather is used, this work isnt suitable for a lot of the bigger manufacturers who make more pairs per day to fulfill orders, its really only for lobbs and greens to make. We make 200 pairs a day, C&J over 400 pairs a day, churches similar, its just not practical for us to make this shoe on a regular basis. A hand lasted shoe is far superior to a machine lasted shoe, it gives a much better feather, enabling a much closer stitch and trim, and is an artform, the true skill of shoe making that hasnt changed for hundreds of years.

An example of why some brands are cheaper than others is that most of the cheaper lines are stitched aloft, where the groove is cut into the sole as it is rounded, and then stitched into the groove, if the shoe is channelled it is slit when rounded, then opened on another machine, stitched , then solutioned inside the channel, then rubbed down when dry, also 90% of our channel have a 'london waist' which is bevelled, and more time is taken to build this up, then the finished sole will be hand inked in a fancy design, obviously the cost of these man hours have to be passed onto the customer.

That pair of loakes posted is an example of this, they are stitched aloft with basic wheeled design on the bottom, its much faster to make. Also some companies have to lower prices to stay in business, the shoe trade is dire nowadays, in years to come there will only be the likes of lobbs and greens left that are made in england, we closed one of our english shops the other year, not enough business in the UK, most of our work is for Japan, same as a few others, luckily for us they are absolutely crazy about english shoes. Ive already been made redundant once, some guys i work with have had it twice, experience is nearly non existent now when looking for workers as people are unwilling to risk redundancy in their later years. Ive had to be loaned out to Lobbs before to do some sewing for them after hours when their guy left to go work at greens, and last year C&J were prepared to take someone off the street to teach welt sewing, the average age of the workers in some places is 55, so its not looking good".
 

The Shooman

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Another good post by Tricker: good to re-read them after 11 years.
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/threads/loake-shoes.79114/page-7#post-706489


an interesting quote from Tricker:
"Our toe-laster left 3 weeks ago because he had enough of this problem, he went to churches, hes 60, you dont leave somewhere to go to churches, especially not at that age, you leave churches to go elsewhere, its very hard work there, massive production rates"
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/threads/limitations-of-trickers.80316/page-3#post-722971


The footwear of choice by some of the Edward Green factory workers:
Edward Green - factory worker 1.jpg
Edward Green - factory worker 2.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkTOyUVFRlk
 
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shookt

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This is truly excellent perspective from a real shoemaker. It highlights the costs of supporting factory-made shoes. Short term savings but it kills the skills.

How does one judge the quality of the lasting? I guess this is from looking at how clean the lines of the shoe are? Rounded lasts with no sharp edges make things easier? Is that why most lower priced machine lasted factory made shoes (especially the American ones) are blobby?
 

The Shooman

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How does one judge the quality of the lasting? I guess this is from looking at how clean the lines of the shoe are? Rounded lasts with no sharp edges make things easier?
That is a good question and something l often wonder about. Obviously some leather will have more stretch in areas than others, so if it is not lasted by hand it's not going to be stretched in areas where it needs to be, and over time the leather will stretch on the shoes and the shoes are going to lose shape imo. The other obvious thing is that it needs to be shaped to the last properly,and this can only be done by hand. That tends to be my thinking anyway, and it makes sense to me.

shookt said:
Is that why most lower priced machine lasted factory made shoes (especially the American ones) are blobby?
That is an interesting comment, and something l have often thought of too. If the leather is not pulled enough it won't take the shape of the last as well as what it could. Sometimes l see shoes that look wavy and shapeless and l wonder if they have been poorly lasted by machine. Of course american shoes are often on blobby lasts and this will be a major factor in their blobby shoes, but if blobby shoes lose shape it might be because of the machine lasting.

Here is the work of Steve at Bedo's. What a wonderful cobbler he is. He won the silver medal at the North American shoe repair contest. Look! Kirby Alison's shoe repair service also uses the past winner Jim McFarland.
https://www.ssia.info/awards/past-winners/
Bedo's leather works repair 1.jpg
Bedo's leather works repair 2.jpg
 
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Kingstonian

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Another good post by Tricker: good to re-read them after 11 years.
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/threads/loake-shoes.79114/page-7#post-706489


an interesting quote from Tricker:
"Our toe-laster left 3 weeks ago because he had enough of this problem, he went to churches, hes 60, you dont leave somewhere to go to churches, especially not at that age, you leave churches to go elsewhere, its very hard work there, massive production rates"
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/threads/limitations-of-trickers.80316/page-3#post-722971


The footwear of choice by some of the Edward Green factory workers:
View attachment 31851 View attachment 31852
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkTOyUVFRlk

It is an eleven year old post though! When there will still posters like leather man around too.
 

The Shooman

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In the video I think he had it next to the shoe - a wooden last at 1:35. I guess potentially it could just be an alternate similar shaped last that he happened to have. https://youtu.be/V3XVZGESvDc?t=96
Yeah, it looks like he had a last and altered it. Notice the toe area...i'd be guessing it was probably a completely different shape, and he did what many do, he altered the toe shape to look similar to the shoe. The original last also had a lower instep so he built it up. The point is, it was never the original last, it was a last that was altered to do the repair job.

Thanks for pointing that out in the video, l actually missed that bit where he shows the last. Dunno why l missed it, might have got distracted and looked away for a moment. In another video of a John Lobb loafer repair he smooths out the uppers over a shoe tree.

It's a great video because it shows he has pride in his work.
 

The Shooman

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This bloke's mackey sewing machine is broken so he blake stitches a Huge Boss shoe by hand. It's a real hoot because he puts it through the sewing machine without any thread and then hand stitches it.

I'm keeping this in my special files.
 
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