The Elite: It's a Big Club and You're Not in it

Money is a valuation concept which can be represented by paper, gold or in the cash of prehistoric man, a right fine lookin chunk of obsidian.Nobody created money. And balancing the budget would not cause a deflationary spiral out of hand, though it could if it were done through certain cuts. Growth in economic valuation can balance the budget with cuts to drag sectors.

But don't let me get in the way of your rant on whatever this "club" you speak of.
 
Money is a valuation concept which can be represented by paper, gold or in the cash of prehistoric man, a right fine lookin chunk of obsidian.Nobody created money. And balancing the budget would not cause a deflationary spiral out of hand, though it could if it were done through certain cuts.

Red herring. I didn't say balancing the budget, I said paying off the national debt. They're not the same thing.

Growth in economic valuation can balance the budget with cuts to drag sectors.

But don't let me get in the way of your rant on whatever this "club" you speak of.

Quantitative easing can achieve the same thing by just printing more money.

And I am rather enjoying my rant, thank you.
 
Balancing the budget is the first step to pay off national debt. They go hand in hand.

They do not. You can run a balanced budget and service the debt at the same time. Balanced budget just means what goes in = what goes out.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs.../the-item-that-is-blowing-up-the-budget-deal/
When was the last time your congressman took your personal call?

This is precious:

But perhaps even more outrageous to Democrats was that the language in the bill appeared to come directly from the pens of lobbyists at the nation’s biggest banks, aides said. The provision was so important to the profits at those companies that J.P.Morgan's chief executive Jamie Dimon himself telephoned individual lawmakers to urge them to vote for it, according to a person familiar with the effort.

I find news funny. Outrageous. Ha ha. Fucking tool of an author thinks democrats are outraged. Someone call Chuck Schumer for some more Wall St campaign money.

Oh, and Jamie Dimon is in the big club.
 
Conservatives/libertarians do. Main party republicans have moved towards statist mentality, compromising with democrats to pass huge spending bills and horrid draconian procedures.

I think it is moving more towards tolerating his antics. I would hope that hard core ultra conservatives would still say "this knob is the best we've got?"
 
I think it is moving more towards tolerating his antics. I would hope that hard core ultra conservatives would still say "this knob is the best we've got?"

That question was asked and answered with Bush. The answer is yes. This is the best America can do choosing it's corporate representatives.
 
http://www.itv.com/news/2014-11-27/tonight-who-owns-britain/



If you find the entire documentary, it's pretty amazing who owns what. It's all these very quiet, quite unknown 'organizations' that all wet their beaks in low level English companies. Margret Thatcher said that they are "returning power to the people", but it turns out that was a lie (ha ha) and they sold it all.

When you listen to these British wankers justify the sell-off, it's eye rolling stuff. Even the Royal Mail has been privatized in England. Shot across the bow America... USPS in the hands of hedge funds? It's a big club, and you're not in it.
 
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Yes, I know PBS gets the liberal label, but whatever. Here is the elite maneuvering the Govt.

Valerie Plame. Woodward. Judith Miller. Bush. Patrick Fitzgerald. Bob Novak. Ashcroft. Rumsfeld. Cheney. The Big Club, and people that they recruit to suck their balls.

Oh. Rove.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/newswar/view/

Everyone got away with it. The weapons of mass deception. Scooter Libby. Poor sucker was pardoned. Oliver North style. Big club, and you're not getting pardoned. You're not in the big pardon club.
 
In 2004 lots of athletes were indicted for steroid use thru Balco products.

The Edgar A Poe award was given in 2005 for the service of exposing this.

A bunch of guys that hit balls got in trouble. Just look at the timeline for congressional level events in 2004 and 05 and you tell me what the distraction was.

For the elite, sacrificing a few ball players was what mattered.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/17/w...campaign-robert-menendez-hillary-clinton.html

Give money, get favors. And the political corruption circle of life keeps on spinning.


Ecuador Family Wins Favors After Donations to Democrats
By FRANCES ROBLESDEC. 16, 2014


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MIAMI — The Obama administration overturned a ban preventing a wealthy, politically connected Ecuadorean woman from entering the United States after her family gave tens of thousands of dollars to Democratic campaigns, according to finance records and government officials.

The woman, Estefanía Isaías, had been barred from coming to the United States after being caught fraudulently obtaining visas for her maids. But the ban was lifted at the request of the State Department under former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton so that Ms. Isaías could work for an Obama fund-raiser with close ties to the administration.

It was one of several favorable decisions the Obama administration made in recent years involving the Isaías family, which the government of Ecuador accuses of buying protection from Washington and living comfortably in Miami off the profits of a looted bank in Ecuador.

The family, which has been investigated by federal law enforcement agencies on suspicion of money laundering and immigration fraud, has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions to American political campaigns in recent years. During that time, it has repeatedly received favorable treatment from the highest levels of the American government, including from New Jersey’s senior senator and the State Department.

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Estefanía Isaías had been banned from entering the United States for visa fraud. The ban was later waived. Credit Expresiones
The Obama administration has allowed the family’s patriarchs, Roberto and William Isaías, to remain in the United States, refusing to extradite them to Ecuador. The two brothers were sentenced in absentia in 2012 to eight years in prison, accused of running their bank into the ground and then presenting false balance sheets to profit from bailout funds. In a highly politicized case, Ecuador says the fraud cost the country $400 million.

The family’s affairs have rankled Ecuador and strained relations with the United States at a time when the two nations are also at odds over another international fugitive: Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder, who has taken refuge in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London.

But while scrutiny has typically focused on whether the family’s generous campaign donations have helped its patriarchs avoid extradition, the unorthodox help given to Ms. Isaías, the daughter of Roberto, has received little attention.

In the spring of 2011, Ms. Isaías, a television executive, was in a difficult situation.

Her father and uncle were Ecuadorean fugitives living in Miami, but she was barred from entering the United States after she brought maids into the country under false visa pretenses and left them at her parents’ Miami home while she traveled.

“Alien smuggling” is what American consular officials in Ecuador called it.

American diplomats began enforcing the ban against Ms. Isaías, blocking her from coming to Miami for a job with a communications strategist who had raised up to $500,000 for President Obama.

What happened next illustrates the kind of access and influence available to people with vast amounts of money.

A Senator’s Assistance

For more than a year, Senator Robert Menendez, Democrat of New Jersey, and his staff engaged in a relentless effort to help Ms. Isaías, urging senior government officials, including Mrs. Clinton’s chief of staff, Cheryl Mills, to waive the ban. The senator’s assistance came even though Ms. Isaías’s family, a major donor to him and other American politicians, does not live in his state.

The Obama administration then reversed its decision and gave Ms. Isaías the waiver she needed to come to the United States — just as tens of thousands of dollars in donations from the family poured into Mr. Obama’s campaign coffers.

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Roberto A. Isaías has been living in Miami after leaving Ecuador where he is wanted in connection with a failed bank. Credit Angel Valentin for The New York Times
An email from Mr. Menendez’s office sharing the good news was dated May 15, 2012, one day after, campaign finance records show, Ms. Isaías’s mother gave $40,000 to the Obama Victory Fund, which provided donations to the president and other Democrats.

“In my old profession as a prosecutor, timelines mean a lot,” said Ken Boehm, a former Pennsylvania prosecutor who is chairman of the National Legal and Policy Center, a government watchdog. “When a donation happens and then something else happens, like the favor, as long as they are very, very close, that really paints a story.”

In 2012, the Isaías family donated about $100,000 to the Obama Victory Fund. Campaign finance records show that their most generous donations came just before a request to the administration.

Ms. Isaías’s mother, María Mercedes, had recently donated $30,000 to the Senate campaign committee that Mr. Menendez led when she turned to him for help in her daughter’s case. At least two members of Mr. Menendez’s staff worked with Ms. Isaías and her father, as well as lawyers and other congressional offices, to argue that she had been unfairly denied entry into the United States.

Over the course of the next year, as various members of the Isaías family donated to Mr. Menendez’s re-election campaign, the senator and his staff repeatedly made calls, sent emails and wrote letters about Ms. Isaías’s case to Mrs. Clinton, Ms. Mills, the consulate in Ecuador, and the departments of State and Homeland Security.

After months of resistance from State Department offices in Ecuador and Washington, the senator lobbied Ms. Mills himself, and the ban against Ms. Isaías was eventually overturned.

Mr. Menendez’s office acknowledged going to bat for Ms. Isaías, but insisted that the advocacy was not motivated by money.

“Our office handled this case no differently than we have thousands of other immigration-related requests over the years, and to suggest that somehow the senator’s longstanding and principled beliefs on immigration have been compromised is just plain absurd,” said Patricia Enright, the senator’s spokeswoman.

Ms. Enright said Mr. Menendez’s office worked on the case because Ms. Isaías had previously been allowed to travel to the United States six times despite the ban, and the decision to suddenly enforce it seemed arbitrary and wrong. She said the senator routinely acted on cases he got from across the nation.

Mr. Menendez is currently under investigation by the Justice Department for his advocacy on behalf of another out-of-state campaign donor, Dr. Salomon E. Melgen, who ran afoul of federal health officials for unorthodox Medicare billing.

In the Isaías case, the senator wrote seven letters for various members of the family, including four on April 2, 2012, alone.

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Senator Robert Menendez, a Democrat from New Jersey, lobbied on behalf of Estefanía Isaías, though she is not a constituent. Credit Mel Evans/Associated Press
A month after succeeding in Ms. Isaías’s case, Mr. Menendez sent another letter to the head of the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services to waive a ban on her sister, María — who had also been deemed an immigrant smuggler because she had brought maids into the United States and left them with her parents while she traveled abroad.

As that letter went out, their mother gave $20,000 more to the Obama Victory Fund.

Immigration officials forwarded the senator’s inquiries to Homeland Security Investigations, the immigration bureau’s investigative arm. Officials there noticed that the Isaías family had made several donations to the senator, and informed the F.B.I. in Miami.

Agents with Homeland Security Investigations are working to have the Isaías brothers deported. The Ecuadorean government has repeatedly requested that the men be extradited, but Washington has declined, saying that the extradition request was poorly prepared and did not meet legal standards. The criminal case in Ecuador was also marred by irregularities.

Support on Capitol Hill

The Isaías brothers consider themselves political exiles unfairly attacked by the Ecuadorean government and have garnered support on Capitol Hill, where sentiment against Ecuador’s leftist president runs strong.

But the case involving Estefanía could prove awkward for Mrs. Clinton, who was in charge of the State Department at the time high-ranking officials overruled the agency’s ban on Ms. Isaías for immigration fraud, and whose office made calls on the matter.

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Winthrop Staples

16 minutes ago
This is merely an elitist instance of the corruption and continuation of human slavery in the USA in the modern era via the mechanism mass...

mary
51 minutes ago
I thought it was illegal for foreigners to contribute to US elections. I cannot for the life of me understand why she was allowed back into...

TheMule
51 minutes ago
Interesting story... Now watch as absolutely nothing happens to Senator Menendez.

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Alfredo J. Balsera, the Obama fund-raiser whose firm, Balsera Communications, sponsored Ms. Isaías’s visa, was featured recently in USA Today as a prominent Latino fund-raiser backing Mrs. Clinton for president in 2016.

Mr. Balsera declined repeated requests to explain what work Ms. Isaías had done for his company, which has close ties to the Obama administration. To stay in the country under her three-year visa, Ms. Isaías would have to remain employed by Balsera Communications, request a change of immigration status or get another employer to sponsor her.

The company website does not list her as one of its 12 employees, though it has biographies and photos of even junior account executives, and news releases were issued when others were hired. Ms. Isaías’s name has not been mentioned on the company’s blog, Facebook page or Twitter timeline, and she is not present in any of the dozens of photographs posted on social media sites of company outings, parties, and professional and social events.

David A. Duckenfield, a partner at the company who is now on leave for a position as deputy assistant secretary of public affairs at the State Department, said Ms. Isaías worked for the firm but declined to comment further. Another senior executive at the firm said she must work outside the office because he had never heard of her.

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Cheryl Mills, who was former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton’s chief of staff. Credit Michael Buckner/Getty Images for J/P Haitian Relief Organization and Cinema for Peace
A spokesman for Mrs. Clinton and her chief of staff, Ms. Mills, denied any special treatment for Ms. Isaías. Although Ms. Mills is unlikely to serve in any official capacity on a potential 2016 presidential campaign, she would undoubtedly be a strong behind-the-scenes presence and one of a small number of longtime advisers whom Mrs. Clinton would rely on for advice.

“There are rigorous processes in place for matters such as these, and they were followed,” said the spokesman, Nick Merrill. “Nothing more, nothing less.”

A White House spokesman, Eric Schultz, declined to comment, saying that visas are issued free from political interference by other federal agencies.

‘Not His Constituents’

Linda Jewell, the American ambassador in Quito, Ecuador, from 2005 to 2008, when Ms. Isaías’s immigration fraud was detected, said the intervention in Ms. Isaías’s case was far from routine.

“Such close and detailed involvement by a congressional office in an individual visa case would be quite unusual, especially for an applicant who is not a constituent of the member of Congress,” Ms. Jewell said after reviewing emails and documents related to the case. “This example of inquiry is substantially beyond the usual level of interest.”

Others have expressed concern. When Mr. Menendez’s office reached out to Senator Bill Nelson, Democrat of Florida, to get him to write a letter on Ms. Isaías’s behalf, his office refused.

The office “discovered from the State Department that there were some red flags associated with the individual in question, and we took no further action,” said Mr. Nelson’s spokesman, Dan McLaughlin.

Mr. Boehm, the former Pennsylvania prosecutor, said Senate ethics rules allowed members of Congress to reach out to the administration on behalf of a constituent. “Members of Congress do a lot for their constituents,” Mr. Boehm said.

“These folks are not his constituents,” he added, referring to Mr. Menendez.

The Isaías family did not return several requests for comment. Ms. Isaías did not respond to emails and messages left at her home in Miami. Her lawyer, Roy J. Barquet, did not respond to phone and email messages.

In an interview this year, Roberto Isaías said the family’s donations were targeted to members of Congress who fight for human rights and freedom of speech in Latin America. He said he had met Mr. Menendez once or twice. “If you go to his website,” Mr. Isaías said, “it says, ‘If you have an immigration problem, call me.’ ”

The senator’s website does offer such casework assistance, under a category titled “Services for New Jerseyans.”
 
No, I'm directly referencing their purported positions. She only donated to purported liberals.

Again, there is no distinction. The people involved are all wealthy elite. Drawing a liberal distinction has no merit. This is how the elite operate, so fuck the media labels. The donations went to where the selfish interest was facilitated.

Observe this event, I predict:

A publicist will get involved
Donations will be returned
Distraction will take place
Americans will again focus on news-o-tainment
Nothing will happen
The money will find another way
They will eventually get what they want
 
If you categorize people as only elite or non elite you miss the ability to look at groups of people and see possible connections based on espoused viewpoints. If you deny that certain people have a higher probability of taking certain actions or voting in certain ways ok. I disagree and feel like you can group things into labels based off of accepted facts.

These are antique paradigms. What I observe is that all business is politics, and all politics is business. Wipe away all the nuance and all of this comes down to is money and power, almost everything has it's roots there. Sure, there are a few activists and a few scraps are thrown to the proles (they have to make it look good), but it's all aligned towards benefiting the elite.

Whenever you hear the phrase "American people" by the media, politicians, or member of the club, what follows is a fucking lie.
 
I just care about taxes and booze. Fuck off and leave my money and my wine and martinis alone.

Now that I mention it, a good martini would hit the spot right about now.

Post when you catch up to my bottle of Zin.

Watch the banking vids. Your tax rubles go directly into the cycle of bonds, debt, and free money for bankers giving you a martini strait in the tookus.
 
Wipe away all the nuance and all of this comes down to is money and power

That's all it's ever been about since the beginning of time, and also how it's supposed to work.

I feel like this thread is another one of those examples of things where someone thinks they have stumbled onto some big truth, but in reality everyone else already knows this.
 
everyone else already knows this.
People know it in an abstract way. The deeper the knowledge, the more insidious it is all revealed to be. Naive dismissals become impossible.
And, for the most part, this is something individually known but not really discussed. The elite prefer it that way.
 
I feel like this thread is another one of those examples of things where someone thinks they have stumbled onto some big truth, but in reality everyone else already knows this.

I posted vids I saw 15 years ago and I've been lamenting on this most of my adult life. I'm not sure how you derive a big discovery save to undermine the topic. I've been ruminating on this one for a long time but I've had thousands of instances where I've learned something everyone else already knew, I welcome realizing I'm naive about something. At one point in my life this was one of them, though it wasn't last week.


That's all it's ever been about since the beginning of time, and also how it's supposed to work.

It's how it works, we agree there, the 'supposed to' part is debatable. If you think it is supposed to be this way, by all means explain why because you keep chiming in as if you're holding some big truth, don't keep us in suspense, share the good word.
 
I posted vids I saw 15 years ago and I've been lamenting on this most of my adult life. I'm not sure how you derive a big discovery save to undermine the topic. I've been ruminating on this one for a long time but I've had thousands of instances where I've learned something everyone else already knew, I welcome realizing I'm naive about something. At one point in my life this was one of them, though it wasn't last week.

I didn't mean you in particular, I meant generally people come up with these supposed big "aha" moments that were already painfully obvious. The tone here just reminds me of that, I can tell you have been refining this rant for quite some time.

It's how it works, we agree there, the 'supposed to' part is debatable. If you think it is supposed to be this way, by all means explain why because you keep chiming in as if you're holding some big truth, don't keep us in suspense, share the good word.

I don't have any big truth. Reality works in this manner, and people are conflating ideals with actuality. Life is much simpler than it's being made out to be here. You aim for the amount of self empowerment you want relative to how hard you are willing to work for it and how much risk to it you are willing to take. Hope your luck and timing are good and that is pretty much it. There is no bigger, grander design than that.

I honestly should have just left out the money part out and put power, because money is just another form of power.
 
People know it in an abstract way. The deeper the knowledge, the more insidious it is all revealed to be. Naive dismissals become impossible.
And, for the most part, this is something individually known but not really discussed. The elite prefer it that way.

No argument from me on this.
 
I can tell you have been refining this rant for quite some time.

Indeed. I'm the old money of elite rumination.

I don't have any big truth. Reality works in this manner, and people are conflating ideals with actuality. Life is much simpler than it's being made out to be here. You aim for the amount of self empowerment you want relative to how hard you are willing to work for it and how much risk to it you are willing to take. Hope your luck and timing are good and that is pretty much it. There is no bigger, grander design than that.

I honestly should have just left out the money part out and put power, because money is just another form of power.

I don't disagree, to a degree. It is simple, you're an insider or you aren't.

There is no bigger, grander design, and a lot of people that aren't in the club manage to succeed as you put forward. Unfortunately, within that it's a rigged game. It doesn't seem you're willing to accept how extensively rigged it really is.
 
My postion is there is no club. There's just varying degrees along an infinite line of power.
 
A guy making 250k a year has way more in common with the guy making 50k than the guy making 2.5 million. He has a house payment, saves for his kids college, leads a basically normal life. He has a slightly nicer car and gets to fly to his vacation instead of drive. The guy making 2.5 million a year does none of these things, and actually exists in a completely different social group that associates with each other exclusively.
 
I prefer the British take, the term working class. If you work, you are working class.
If you have piles of family money enabling a stately idle existence, leisure class.

Income is an odd way of talking about things, presumably used because most people have almost zero net worth. Amassed fortune is an alien concept. They know their weekly paycheck and what that comes to in a year.

The truth is that a true elite can go decades with zero income and minimal change in lifestyle.
 
They don't have membership cards or secret handshakes, but it's closed off. Even if you stumble upon tens of millions of dollars, the established network will not welcome you. It's a global country club, and both the money/power and the right connections are required for access. And really, as they are power brokering with immense amounts, it only makes sense to do it that way.

Note that like any club, there is infighting and power struggles amongst members. There are people that are largely scorned and thought not to belong, but are somehow needed and kept. Shit like that.
 
They don't have membership cards or secret handshakes, but it's closed off. Even if you stumble upon tens of millions of dollars, the established network will not welcome you. It's a global country club, and both the money/power and the right connections are required for access. And really, as they are power brokering with immense amounts, it only makes sense to do it that way.

Note that like any club, there is infighting and power struggles amongst members. There are people that are largely scorned and thought not to belong, but are somehow needed and kept. Shit like that.

LOL. I might put this in the hall of fame.
 
So, this mythical "club", where is the boundary? Does the guy making $999,999.99 qualify or do you have to be at a cool mill? For how many years? A List celebrity or do the supporting actors from Plan 9 from Outer Space get in? How about English Gentry who have lost all their money (and are significantly less powerful than the current upper middle American family btw), where do they rank?

So many questions.
 
My postion is there is no club. There's just varying degrees along an infinite line of power.

I would agree with that, life is just a power gradient. Everyone works for themself.

As Russell said, there is a group of very wealthy and powerful people that communicate, socialize, do business with, and interact only with themselves. They live in a completely different reality. A good analogy is the helicopter crowd in Rio/S Paolo, Brazil. They are so wealthy that they take helicopters from building top to building top and never interact with the proles that live below. It's a completely isolated existence wrapped in wealth.
 
So, this mythical "club", where is the boundary? Does the guy making $999,999.99 qualify or do you have to be at a cool mill? For how many years? A List celebrity or do the supporting actors from Plan 9 from Outer Space get in? How about English Gentry who have lost all their money (and are significantly less powerful than the current upper middle American family btw), where do they rank?

So many questions.

You're asking questions to make the topic look ridiculous.

There is no boundary, $ amount, or cool mill. No time constraint, celebrity list, or spacecraft.

What exists is what you see in that Ecuador post above. Those are members of the club operating. People living in exclusivity with power and access at a level that makes all your effort, hard work and risk taking mean shit compared to how easy it is for them to circumvent how everyone else is forced to operate.
 
You're asking questions to make the topic look ridiculous.

It didn't take me asking questions, I can assure you.


People living in exclusivity with power and access at a level that makes all your effort, hard work and risk taking mean shit compared to how easy it is for them to circumvent how everyone else is forced to operate.

You still haven't defined who these people are.
 

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