The Gun News Thread

Dropbear

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So Bob O’Rourke has been trying to resuscitate his campaign with a pledge to send the cops out to confiscate tens of millions of rifles from the public.

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Thruth

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No more civilian AR-15s from Colt. Cop & military sales only
 

Jan Libourel

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^I wonder what their marketshare has been in recent years. As with many of their products, I suspect the cachet of the historic Colt name has been the main selling point.
 

Thruth

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^I wonder what their marketshare has been in recent years. As with many of their products, I suspect the cachet of the historic Colt name has been the main selling point.
You are quite right. They have been supplanted by other makers, especially the modular ones. Buy a lower and mod the rest of the rifle.
 

Jan Libourel

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Since Beto's presidential campaign has not gained much traction, a number of his supporters would like him to drop out and make another bid for the U.S. Senate. I don't think I'm too far off the mark if I surmise that Beto's anti-gun zeal would hurt him a lot more in Texas than it would in a national election. However, it's been over 46 years since I left the good ol' Lone Star State. Things have probably changed...but not that much, I'm guessing.
 

Dropbear

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Yeh, even in his home state, old Bobby O’Rourke can sell this sorta nonsense.


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Jan Libourel

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^Ah those Serbs! Tough hombres to be sure! I can recall when American policy was very anti-Serbian during the disorders accompanying the dismemberment of Yugoslavia in the 1990s, my old uncle (God rest his soul!) said of the Serbs, "Fine Christian people, fighting the Muslims (God damn them!)." I will add that my uncle had no ethnic affinities to the Serbs. He was as American as they make 'em. None of his ancestors immigrated to the USA, they were already here and helped found the nation. He also had a fair dollop of Native American blood--considerably more than Elizabeth Warren.
 

Dropbear

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I have not Slavic decent at all, but I was on Team Croat during the Balkan wars of the 1990s.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Where do privileged white liberals in gated communities find common ground with the racist right: in disarming people of colour.

What's this bit all about: "This is a black hole," he said in his heavy German Jewish accent, sounding every bit like Albert Einstein. "Once you cross the event horizon, you cannot get out. The gravity is so strong not even light can escape. You are sucked into the black hole and you come out somewhere else in space entirely. And you can never come back."

Oh sorry, now I see: The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial stance.

LOL! They just cannot hide it, can they?
 

Jan Libourel

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^Hmmm...The author's account of the loud "CRACK as the firing pin found an empty chamber" makes me wonder about the veracity of his story. I have done a moderate amount of dry snapping with Walther pistols of that type and have never heard anything more than a modest "click."
 

Journeyman

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What's this bit all about: "This is a black hole," he said in his heavy German Jewish accent, sounding every bit like Albert Einstein. "
It's a bit odd, but rather than anti-Semitism, I suspect that it's more that the author was simply trying to include as much "colour" or description as possible.

However, the author could simply have said "heavy German accent", as I really don't think that a Jewish German person sounds different from any other German person.

^Hmmm...The author's account of the loud "CRACK as the firing pin found an empty chamber" makes me wonder about the veracity of his story.
I always thought that dry firing was regarded as bad?

In any case, I suspect that it's probably a bit of poetic license added to the description to make it sound more vivid - a "CRACK" is more exciting than "a click as the firing pin found an empty chamber".
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It's a bit odd, but rather than anti-Semitism, I suspect that it's more that the author was simply trying to include as much "colour" or description as possible.
Because it's fake and work of woke journalese.

Police brutality and deaths whilst should be eliminated completely, should not be used as a straw man, to obfuscate the bigger problem that Afro-American males are more likely to be killed by fellow blacks in much, much larger numbers that are shocking to us Europeans. But in these enlightened times we're not allowed to explore that, focus on one issue that whilst abhorrent is not the major risk factor to the black experience in America.

If race is central to the lived experience, and has quality value, then black-on-black murder is worthy of consideration as to the reasons why and how to stop it. Of course we can't go there, as with white middle class wokeness it's all about covering up the racism in their own low expectations of other racial groups. I find them bewildering in their contradictory positions and zero self-awareness.
 

Jan Libourel

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I always thought that dry firing was regarded as bad?
Depends a lot on the firearm. Generally best avoided--a great many negligent discharges occur when a supposedly "empty" firearm is being "dry snapped" and goes "BANG" instead of "click." As to abuse of the firearm, it should always be avoided with rimfire calibers since the firing pin will hit the steel edge of the chamber. Best not done with other firearms, e.g., revolvers, but the use of "snap caps" can obviate the abuse. Many automatic pistols like those of the 1911 design can be dry fired with impunity.

In any case, I suspect that it's probably a bit of poetic license added to the description to make it sound more vivid - a "CRACK" is more exciting than "a click as the firing pin found an empty chamber".
Yeah, but the click doesn't "bounce off the walls." There is a point where "poetic license" or "artistic exaggeration" merges into outright mendacity.
 

Journeyman

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Because it's fake and work of woke journalese.
Sorry, I'm not sure why you veered off into African-American crime statistics there, and I'm sorry if you misunderstood me.

I didn't mean "colour" as in "people of colour", but rather "colourful" as in "descriptive". The journalist was, I think, attempting to introduce greater detail into the article so as to make descriptive and thus, hopefully, interesting.
 

Dropbear

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Kingstonian

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Interesting how many pack a gun for church.

I could not work out what denomination it was so I guessed it might be a black church. Turns out congregation were mainly white. Rather an unattractive building for a church though.
 

Kingstonian

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The church had a ‘security team’ too!

And nowadays you are allowed to carry firearms in places of worship in the area. It was previously banned until a gunman killed 26 in a church in recent times.
 

Fwiffo

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Interesting how many pack a gun for church.

I could not work out what denomination it was so I guessed it might be a black church. Turns out congregation were mainly white. Rather an unattractive building for a church though.
It's the south mate. Everyone has a gun. My staff in Georgia used to rush their sandwiches at their desk to go shoot at the range at lunch.
 

Dropbear

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The church had a ‘security team’ too!

And nowadays you are allowed to carry firearms in places of worship in the area. It was previously banned until a gunman killed 26 in a church in recent times.
While it is legal for licensees to carry in church, it gets more complicated because most churches in Texas have a school on the property - making carry a big No/no. The exception is church sanctioned security team members. I train a lot of church and synagogue congregations on this stuff.

The video showed 5 and probably six members of the congregation draw firearms once the assailant started shooting. That’s an unusually large security team for the size of the congregation.

Also, Sunderland Springs was awful. I didn’t get to the scene until the following day, but the trauma in the entire community was palpable.
 
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Dropbear

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Imagine being an immigrant-hating Nazi and getting arrested for smuggling an undocumented Canadian immigrant!


 

Dropbear

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When Left and Right agree:



Personally, I’m expecting Monday to be a shit show and advise everyone to keep away. There will be better ways to fight this.
 

Dropbear

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If he doesn’t go to jail, it will be because he sold his house to pay legal fees.

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Lobbster

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So a bumpstock turns a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic one? But I thought full-automatic weapons were legal in some states or are these meant for states where they aren't legal?
 

Dropbear

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So a bumpstock turns a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic one? But I thought full-automatic weapons were legal in some states or are these meant for states where they aren't legal?
Correct, a rifle with a bumpstock (previously legal) is now considered a machine gun - something highly regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934. Though a few years ago they were on the shelves of Walmart for anyone to buy.

In many states it is possible to own a machine gun, after you acquire the correct paperwork with background checks, etc. The catch is that in 1986, under Reagan, they amended the law prohibiting the importation of any NEW machine guns for civilian use. So a 1985 registered machine gun can still be owned (with all the paperwork done) and at a high cost ($40,000 is the going rate for many automatic rifles like the M16) because the supply is fixed. The only person who can own or manufacture a machine gun after 1986 is a dealer or with paperwork to prove that it is a sample owned temporarily for the purposes of a pending sale to a police department.

it’s actually a bit more nuanced than that, but you get the idea.

So, yes, many of us can own a machine gun (if we could afford one). But a bumpstock on a rifle is never going to get registered legally and will incur all the wrath of the BATF for illegal manufacturing of a machine gun.

American gun laws are complex and not intuitive. As a result, most firearms owners are incredibly fastidious in documenting and ensuring that they don’t fall afoul of one of these arcane laws and end up doing time in the federal slammer.
 

Lobbster

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Thanks for explaining. Granted I have no idea about the physics of weapons, from the videos I've seen you could probabaly manufacture such a device if you wanted to.

Still, there are plenty of videos on youtube with people showing off fully-automatic weapons. Wouldn't those be illegal or don't they qualify as machine guns? I remember that some were called sub-machine guns and they seem to use smaller calibers.

Example:
 

Dropbear

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It’s definitely confusing af.

as far as the National Firearms Act goes, anything that allows you to fire multiple bullets with a single mechanical action (like trigger pull) is considered a ‘machine gun’, regardless of shape or size. It all dates back to the 1930s and fears of gangsters with Tommy Guns. Now, this has expanded to a single jiggle (bump stocks - a truly silly toy that allows you to fire quickly by harnessing the recoil force to speed up the trigger action in a wildly inaccurate spray).

How does someone acquire a post-1986 machinegun, like Mr Vickers in the P90 video? This would be the ‘post-1986 dealer sample’ with a ‘law letter’ that I mentioned. Vickers is a respected trainer who travels the country providing classes to law enforcement and military units. His company also produces firearms accessories (best slings on the market, IMO). It wouldn’t be hard for him to get the paperwork for a dealer sample. Or know a dealer or law enforcement agency who will loan it to him for his TV show.

For the rest of us, it’s just too much effort to become a firearms dealer and then buy something that isn’t really yours to keep. A post-1986 sample is about a tenth the price of a pre-1986 machine gun because you can’t just sell it to someone else or pass it down to your kids. The pre-1986 machinegun is also commonly referred to as a ‘transferable machinegun’ because it can legally be sold and the license transferred to another person. Most people who buy pre-1986 machineguns these days are investors who never shoot them.

ok, one other caveat and legal weirdness. What physicall constitutes a machine gun? Any forearm consists of a few hundred pieces, so which ones does the law consider the key components? it’s not consistent across the various laws, but for a machinegun it usually comes down to a handful of parts that allow full automatic fire. In the HK platform, it is a small, unassuming piece of metal called the sear. The sear is registered as a machine gun. So if you bought a 1983 HK G3 machinegun you are buying the licenses sear and the host rifle. You can then drop that registered sear into your semi-auto 2020 manufactured HK MP5 pistol and turn it into a fully automatic weapon with your sear.
 

Journeyman

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Still, there are plenty of videos on youtube with people showing off fully-automatic weapons. Wouldn't those be illegal or don't they qualify as machine guns? I remember that some were called sub-machine guns and they seem to use smaller calibers.
The gun in the video (FN P90) comes in both automatic, and semi-automatic versions and was created in 1990 or thereabouts (hence the name, P90). It's used by police and government in various countries but, as per Dropbear Dropbear 's post, presumably can't be imported for civilian sale in the US because it was manufactured after 1986.
 
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