ASSHAT
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So are you Old Boy Hip or Downtown Hip?
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The SF/AAAC/FNB trainwreck thread
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ASSHAT
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Also not sure what you mean by outrageous overconsumption, but based on the hundreds of ties he has listed and sold on ebay often never worn, as well as tissues, cufflinks and other goodies it would appear he is no small time consumer. His ebay seller name is Lordscarsdale by the way. Perhaps he is trying to pair things down and cut back to make more space for model trains, miniature soldiers or whatever his other hobby is.
https://ebay.co.uk/usr/lordscarsdale
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Oh he probably has bought and sold more than Grayson or any of the other theoretical Big Daddies™, but that isn't his raison d'etre. It's all just means to an end, whereas these guys we are talking about, the consumption is the end. Anyone that doesn't think Grayson was a complete consumption addict who acquired knowledge of menswear as an excuse to consume is demented.
Yes, I'm hooked up with ye olde FNB on several platforms. As I said, probably has the most closely aligned interests and taste of anyone I've come across over the years.
Riva
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I need to post this on top of my monitor so I can finally save myself from the long term addiction.
The Shooman
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I've been contemplating for a few days whether FNB is a big daddy™. He has many of the qualifications to very high levels, actually, he is probably more qualified than anyone else on the forums. He seems to understand clothes really well, and he has that excitement for clothes that the old school big daddies have. He would have more highend clothes than Grayson.
I am very surprised he sells clothes on ebay, l thought he would scoff at such things because it was the type of behaviour that would be below his status. His thoughts on clothes are interesting.
Late edit: yes, Scott is a Big Daddy. He has always done his own thing, enjoys the best clothes, and likes to wear a coat and tie everyday even when at home by himself. Doesn't need to try hard, he is his own man.
That is the thing too, there are so many consumers that try far too hard, and it is tiring to witness, where-as those Big Daddies are interesting to watch because they give off a different energy to it all.
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ASSHAT
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This was true in the old days on London Lounge where T4 came off as a bit of a M. Alden fan boy until he presumably had the typical falling out with Alden. Alden is of course famous for his ban hammer. I find Alden extremely knowledgeable and elegant in his manner of dress but he is a part time cloth merchant who defends his merchandise and strictly limits discussion. Anyone who he can identify discussing him or his products in a critical way or on an unauthorized platform are dealt with swiftly and permanently.
as noted T4 is neither euro or american but he is based in europe.
ASSHAT
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Serious question for you. How is selling unworn Duchamp ties on ebay a means to an end (other than recouping some money)? And what exactly is his end game/raison d'etre? I personally did find his articles about clothing to be thought provoking, if somewhat fantastical.
Also while i have no doubt Grayson was a consumption addict, his opinions on clothing arrived on the forums already fully formed. He seems to have acquired his knowledge from trial and error through the use of various tailors until he found Raphael, so i’m not sure that the purpose of this knowledge acquisition was to simply acquire more, but also to acquire better.
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Specifically selling ties isn't really a means but more a result. I actually have a Duchamp tie he gave me funny enough. Which I never wear because it's fairly hideous.
I've always seen FNB working, refining, playing with different ideas. He used (uses?) the bespoke process to express and learn. Wild creations, some outré, some retro, etc... It leads to fucking mountains of waste obviously. Marc Grayson has elevnty billion fucking gray suits. It's a completely different thing. I mean i guess its great he got a .000001% improvement in quality by the time he got to Raphael, which is nice, but acquiring better is no different than acquiring more. What is he creating? What is he expressing?
I relate to the random shot in the dark creativity that FNB goes for. He definitely has some fantastical ideas, which is unlike me, but I appreciate that (kind of like our own Shoeey) as it's not something I'm really capable of as I'm a compulsively realistic person.
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I actually do too. Most people don't believe me but I've gotten actually uncomfortable just wearing a T shirt. I don't really try and defend or convert anyone else, but it's something i definitely feel as I've aged.
The Shooman
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Grayson did it his way, and that is all the matters. He got the F you lapels, the lesser fabrics (he loved H Lesser most of all), the fits, the traditional look, and the handwork. I don't think he ever dressed to fit in, but I think he dressed to create in his mind an image of sartorial perfection. He wanted the old style perfection, and I think he thought he was the best dressed man in the world.doghouse said:
He told stories about how his shirtmaker thought his suits were perfect and fitted like they were painted on, and it seemed to prove in Grayson's mind that he was the master. Grayson got everything he wanted, he did it all his way and never looked back.
Grayson always talked like a Big Daddy because he knew he WAS the Big Daddy, and truth be told, everyone knew he was.
Having had these discussion Doggy, it's obvious that there are many different types of Big Daddies. FNB is a certain type of Daddy, Grayson is another type, while Ed Hayes is another type of Daddy all together. No matter what, they are all rare and have similar linkage coming back to common roots, ie, they all belong to the family of the highly exclusive BIG Daddies.
Sator was never a Big Daddy. He had potential, but he just didn't have what it takes. See...there are very few true Big Daddies on the forums, maybe less than a dozen. Sure, there are `shoo daddies' and `umbrella daddies' etc, but how many of them are true BIG Daddies?...very very few. The true Big Daddies do it all...they have the clothes, the shoos...they do the lot. I might have only been a `shoo daddy', but at least l had the title of "Daddy" to my name. Very few guys are troo shoo Daddies, and even fewer were born into it and had highly exclusive shoo lists drawn up even before they were out of nappies.
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sirloin
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"I don't pretend to be a gentleman of any kind."
The Shooman
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.............
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Jan Libourel
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Boy, this latest exchange sure is a trip down memory lane!
The love of fine clothing certainly can trigger addictive acquisition. Several factors curbed that tendency in me. When I retired, I suddenly had less income and far fewer occasions to dress well. I also was running out of closet space. In hindsight, I think I got into clothing addiction because I found dressing well to be a consolation for going into the office and working. Of course, it was really quite eccentric. Nobody else there dressed well.
A few observations from the forum culture of yesteryear:
T4 was Dutch (at least so he led me to believe). We corresponded for a little bit in Dutch. His first name was "Jan," like mine.
When it comes to "Big Daddies," what about Mr. Pollock (I think that was his name--Jerry Springer's erstwhile college roommate)? He wasn't much of a contributor to the forums, but he certainly was regarded with great awe and respect for his taste and wardrobe.
In some ways Cruiser was a prophetic figure, vindicated by history. Since the days when he lorded it over ACAC dressing well according to the norms of classic good taste has declined precipitously. Even many prominent public figures rarely appear in neckties these day, to cite merely one dismal example.
Bown is an interesting character. Had we been merely a couple of years closer at Oxford, we surely would have been acquainted, both being active in High Church circles. I always loved his characterization of the modern C. of E. as a "rotting, maggot-infested corpse."
The love of fine clothing certainly can trigger addictive acquisition. Several factors curbed that tendency in me. When I retired, I suddenly had less income and far fewer occasions to dress well. I also was running out of closet space. In hindsight, I think I got into clothing addiction because I found dressing well to be a consolation for going into the office and working. Of course, it was really quite eccentric. Nobody else there dressed well.
A few observations from the forum culture of yesteryear:
T4 was Dutch (at least so he led me to believe). We corresponded for a little bit in Dutch. His first name was "Jan," like mine.
When it comes to "Big Daddies," what about Mr. Pollock (I think that was his name--Jerry Springer's erstwhile college roommate)? He wasn't much of a contributor to the forums, but he certainly was regarded with great awe and respect for his taste and wardrobe.
In some ways Cruiser was a prophetic figure, vindicated by history. Since the days when he lorded it over ACAC dressing well according to the norms of classic good taste has declined precipitously. Even many prominent public figures rarely appear in neckties these day, to cite merely one dismal example.
Bown is an interesting character. Had we been merely a couple of years closer at Oxford, we surely would have been acquainted, both being active in High Church circles. I always loved his characterization of the modern C. of E. as a "rotting, maggot-infested corpse."
Pimpernel Smith
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For the first decade of my career I was mostly in fabrication shops or on new build sites, so you were in overalls or not wearing decent gear in case you got weld spatter or grinding dust on them. When I found myself in the office environment I was surprised at how shitty most suit and tie people are and look: cheap suits, crap shoes and the derivative late 1990s footballer commentator cuff link look. I differentiated myself from the herd pretty quick with Gieves & Hawkes which were still pretty good back then. Not bespoke, off-the-peg.
But unlike owning a mainstream luxury watch, a Rolex Submariner or Audemars Piguet Royal Oak, most people wouldn't recognize a decent cut, or decent fabric. The herd and also many players have long ago moved on from that.
In the lock down world the mainstream business world belongs to dressing like your IT dude.
The C. of E. has always been a bit of damp squib. Mediocre, lacking in belief and intensity. A picture postcard home counties version of religion.
It never made inroads into the cities and has now surrendered to the SJW vernacular.
Baptized into the C. of E. I find it an utter embarrassment in its present form with Justin Welby in command as Primate. As on oil man, I find this ex-oil man a very strange cat.
Dropbear
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C of E/ Episcopal Church has all the beauty And intellectual muscle of Roman Catholicism, without the guilt. Unless you are looking for a party. Catholic schoolgirls were fun. Anglicans are all middle aged from birth.
Pimpernel Smith
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Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you the Church of England.
Dropbear
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Me? I usually list myself as an Agnostic Anglican. I go to my AA meeting a few times a year.
Pimpernel Smith
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Apologies again: I thought the C of E in the original post I quoted was the Church of England.
Jan Libourel
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^It was the Church of England! As for the Episcopal Church, in my book, it forfeited much of its claim to beauty when they jettisoned the Book of Common Prayer and the King James Version, treasures of the whole English speaking world. "Intellectual muscle"? Whatever was there went flabby a long time ago! I fear Rome is slip-sliding down the same dismal path. I am inclined to think the strongest bastion of traditional Christianity today is Holy Russia.
Pimpernel Smith
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The King James Bible is along with Shakespeare the roots of the modern English language. I have no problem with that, my gripe with the Church of England is not with the good book, it's the timid and lacking in all conviction sermons delivered by vicars who don't really believe. Justin Welby types. A definite rotter.
My wife and kids are in the Orthodox Church. They're big on ceremony delivered by Rasputin types with incense and gilded icons.
Jan Libourel
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^How cool that your family are members of the Holy Orthodox Church. I have long had the opinion that Holy Grigori was a much maligned man. Of course, Rasputin was a staretz, not a priest. His daughter lived not far from my aunt in the Silver Lake district of Los Angeles.
The Shooman
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FNB.com has been a mess for over a week. Spammers have had a field day and no-one in sight to clean it up. Mods have been slack and FNB too busy living the good life to know what is going on.
Kingstonian
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FNB is like a ghost town nowadays. Most of the good posters have departed.
Admittedly a couple of the mods are a bit shit though....
After reading so much about SF favorite The Armoury, I decided to look at their website. I see this link and thought 'The Arthur' must be some hotel for which they designed a uniform. I thought, pretty cool.
thearmoury.com
Nope.
Then thought, how many suckers are going to buy this anyway?
Introducing: The Arthur's Standard Jacket - The Armoury
The Armoury's Mark Cho talks about developing our latest casual jacket.
thearmoury.com
Nope.
Then thought, how many suckers are going to buy this anyway?
ASSHAT
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FNB too busy running his ebay operation selling new with tags duchamp ties to the hip downtown crowd.
The Shooman
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FNB contained lots of gems that none of the other forums contained. It was an advanced forum. The good old days were glorious, but now it has probably served it's purpose. Some good things are only meant to be for a certain period of time.
FNB has the website registered for another 15 years or so.
Great White Snark
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For $700 they can fuck right off!!After reading so much about SF favorite The Armoury, I decided to look at their website. I see this link and thought 'The Arthur' must be some hotel for which they designed a uniform. I thought, pretty cool.
Introducing: The Arthur's Standard Jacket - The Armoury
The Armoury's Mark Cho talks about developing our latest casual jacket.
Nope.
Then thought, how many suckers are going to buy this anyway?
Kingstonian
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Indeed. I would not have the gift of it.
Walter
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