The SF/AAAC/FNB trainwreck thread

belinmad

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Forget it, he is rolling.
bob marley smoking GIF
 

Pimpernel Smith

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According to my South African chum. They deplete the fat in your brain.

Just asked the question, as I know many of you are a health freaks, living clean and serene lives and will be up to date with the latest health knowledge.

Personally, I do it all with a diet of red wine and marbled steak.
 

The Shooman

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You have to be careful out on the parameters. You can go too far out and never get back with soul intact.

Yes, and it gets worse. Some people leave their bodies and they are never able to return. Then a `walk in' spirit sees the body and decides to reside in that person's old body. I sees these people on the internet....they meditate day and night and leave their body, but now the person looking through their eyes isn't a human anymore, it's another being who has taken over the body while the human's spirit is away some place in the cosmos.

Yeah, l had issues a few times. My soul went out and had trouble getting back into the body once. Another time l woke up and my soul was out of my body floating out in space. Gotta be careful about various practices.

Beware satanic worshippers who profess that it is just libertarianism. For some yes, others are bringing you in and you're already on their radar.


YES!!! Keep well away from many of the practices.



Psychic vampire attack is relentless in its feeding frenzy. One minute you're flirting with Lilith the next your eating human excrement and getting screwed by an Alsatian.

YES!!! There seductive women on this earth who take men out in the cosmos and seduces them. They call themselves an advanced spiritual leader, but they are nothing of the sort. I won't talk about these people or mention who they are. They are the great deceivers up to no good.

Take a wrong step and you can be ruined in an instant. I see so many ruined people online, many are not even human beings anymore.

The depths of depravity of the Vienna coven is coveted by a certain Dutch gentleman here. He's fusing the satanic with samurai imagery and ritual.

Very sartorially aware, but not in a good way.

I could tell you lots of stories Mr Smith, but l won't.
 
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Sammy Ambrose

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Yes, and it gets worse. Some people leave their bodies and they are never able to return. Then a `walk in' spirit sees the body and decides to reside in that person's old body. I sees these people on the internet....they meditate day and night and leave their body, but now the person looking through their eyes isn't a human anymore, it's another being who has taken over the body while the human's spirit is away some place in the cosmos.

Yeah, l had issues a few times. My soul went out and had trouble getting back into the body once. Another time l woke up and my soul was out of my body floating out in space. Gotta be careful about various practices.




YES!!! Keep well away from many of the practices.





YES!!! There seductive women on this earth who take men out in the cosmos and seduces them. They call themselves an advanced spiritual leader, but they are nothing of the sort. I won't talk about these people or mention who they are. They are the great deceivers up to no good.

Take a wrong step and you can be ruined in an instant. I see so many ruined people online, many are not even human beings anymore.



I could tell you lots of stories Mr Smith, but l won't.
Shooy: When you got back into your body did your shoes still fit?
 

Kingstonian

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I am currently reading ‘End of Watch’ by Stephen King. This concerns a serial killer in a coma. He develops the ability to enter the minds and bodies of people susceptible to him. Electronic technology boosts this power. It’s a good read.
 

Great White Snark

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I am currently reading ‘End of Watch’ by Stephen King. This concerns a serial killer in a coma. He develops the ability to enter the minds and bodies of people susceptible to him. Electronic technology boosts this power. It’s a good read.
You better remind shooey it’s a fictional fantasy novel, not a documentary.
 

Lumpen

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I am currently reading ‘End of Watch’ by Stephen King. This concerns a serial killer in a coma. He develops the ability to enter the minds and bodies of people susceptible to him. Electronic technology boosts this power. It’s a good read.


Freddy Krueger revisited wifi edition?
 

Journeyman

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I'm not sure if this is the best thread for this, as this is actually something good.

Paul Winston, of the Ivy/trad clothes store "Chipp" in New York City, has been posting anecdotes on Ask Andy About Clothes over the past six months. They're very interesting and amusing.


Here's one of his anecdotes:

Possibly Mobster

"An older man walked into the shop accompanied by two beautiful girls who he said were his "nieces" and a pug nosed man who looked like he had spent time in the ring as a middleweight .

The man was from Florida. He said a friend had told him about our quality and he wanted to order a custom tailored suit.

He placed an order.

After the man left, my father said he was "very uncomfortable" with the new customer. He thought it was very likely that the man was "mob" connected.

When the suit was ready for the first fitting, the man traveled up from Florida accompanied by the same middleweight and two different " nieces". ( Beauty and "to die for figures" were apparently part of his families genetic make up.)

After the fitting. he said he would be back in town in a few weeks.

When he returned four weeks later for the final fitting - of course with the middleweight and two new "nieces" - he was very pleased . He said he would be returning in in a month and place additional orders.

About 20 minutes after he left we received a phone call.

We were told Mr......... had left something in the changing area.

What we found was a very big roll of $100 bills.

Dad said we were lucky no one went into the changing area after he left.

Dad said if we had not found the money we would have had two options- Replace the $ or direct fish traffic in the Hudson "
 

Dropbear

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The dude with the second most punchable face on the Internet being photographed by the first, who is pretending he was ‘on assignment’ as a menswear photographer for StyFo:

 

The Shooman

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3,019
Simon's face is everywhere on the internet. Anytime you type in the word bespoke in google pictures, his picture is the most prominent by far.

another person who pops up all the time is this guy:

and the odd thing about this guy is that none of his suits etc ever seem to get finished.
 
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Journeyman

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another person who pops up all the time is this guy:
and the odd thing about this guy is that none of his suits etc ever seem to get finished.

I guess that's a risk when you keep on ordering different bespoke garments from overseas. His items appear to need to be altered frequently and he insists on travelling back to Europe to have the alterations done which, of course, means that he's unable to wear them for months or years at a stretch.

Anyway, he did have some items finished, albeit after lengthy delays, such as this... um... interestingly-tailored suit by P.Johnson:

2-1050x700.jpg



He also - against all expectations - managed to get a pair of trousers from Signor Ambrosi, that only took eight months or so longer than expected. Of course, they were too tight and thus didn't fit properly, but at least they had lovely bar tacks and hand-detailing.
 

Pauly Chase

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I guess that's a risk when you keep on ordering different bespoke garments from overseas. His items appear to need to be altered frequently and he insists on travelling back to Europe to have the alterations done which, of course, means that he's unable to wear them for months or years at a stretch.

Anyway, he did have some items finished, albeit after lengthy delays, such as this... um... interestingly-tailored suit by P.Johnson:

2-1050x700.jpg



He also - against all expectations - managed to get a pair of trousers from Signor Ambrosi, that only took eight months or so longer than expected. Of course, they were too tight and thus didn't fit properly, but at least they had lovely bar tacks and hand-detailing.

He has a bit of James Caan look
 

The Shooman

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3,019
And also had made some Clev's if I recall.


Yes. He got measured by a salesmen who didn't know what he was doing, and Mr Doyle never spoke up at the fitting with Teemu either, so he ends up with a crazy fitting shoe like this; it is too big.

Sometimes men need to go back to the drawing board, stop chasing bespoke with chaotic minds and get their thinking right. It would be a good start, but some men are unable to calm their minds, and the results of their bespoke adventures are not always good.

A man needs to know what he wants, but that can take great diligence to develop. One of the hardest things is knowing how you want something to fit.
Cleverley monks - timeless man.gif
 
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Journeyman

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Yes. He got measured by a salesmen who didn't know what he was doing, and Mr Doyle never spoke up at the fitting with Teemu either, so he ends up with a crazy fitting shoe like this; it is too big.

Actually, he said that he was measured up by Teemu, who then created a last for him (scroll down to near the end, where he talks about Teemu's "last book" and how he placed his feet on the pages while Teemu traced around them):

 

The Shooman

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Actually, he said that he was measured up by Teemu, who then created a last for him (scroll down to near the end, where he talks about Teemu's "last book" and how he placed his feet on the pages while Teemu traced around them):


I hope they didn't outsource the last making to Springline. :o Teemu is too much of an expert to get it wrong.
 

ballmouse

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249

Another clothing scandal.
 

Sammy Ambrose

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199

Another clothing scandal.
I think we need Shooey's input on this. He'll be able to tell us what construction they are.
 

The Shooman

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I think we need Shooey's input on this. He'll be able to tell us what construction they are.

Definitely a glued sole with a rand added with an out turned upper to make it look like stitch down construction. Really cheap materials used and poor workmanship too. Wow.
 
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Dropbear

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belinmad

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Another clothing scandal.


Dear Community member,

We hope you’re well. We have some news, that is critical for our brand but at the same time, we know this isn’t the world of yesterday. We all have much greater issues to deal with everyday and far bigger concerns to prioritise. Nevertheless, we felt a duty to inform you of some significant and unexpected changes, so I hope you will bear with us as we do. Know that our urgency and concern about Archibald, does not reflect an indifference on our part to the precarity in the world beyond it.

We received some news recently that affects the very foundations of our brand. It still feels surreal to be saying this, but our shock is of lesser importance than our need to update all of you. Some recent batches of our hand-welted shoes have been made using a new method of construction. We were not aware that one of our shoemakers had changed his technique. He did not inform us before doing so, nor at any other time until now. Archibald London has a history of transparency, and a commitment to delivering products of exceptional quality, for little profit, and with fair pricing. Transparency was not a watchword for us, it was our actual proof. We lifted the curtain on how a product is made, how much production costs, who the artisans are, how much we charge compared to the market, and how much of a profit we take.

Thus we take this news very seriously because it cuts right to the heart of who we are. And in keeping with our ethos, we will outline what had happened. On the 5th March 2021, a customer deconstructed the hand-welted shoes he had purchased from Archibald. The customer, who we shall refer to as JMR928, realised that the product has not been made as our marketing described and contacted us to share his discovery. We are incredibly grateful to JMR928, who has generously lent us his insight, time and kindness, to assist us in getting to the bottom of this matter and granted us the opportunity to steer things back on track.

This was news to us. We have trusted our artisans and their commitment to craftsmanship. We were not aware that the construction had changed. This new technique did not match up with what our content, from our videos to our values, had led the customer to expect. The shoe was reconstructed without our knowledge or consent. We had been paying this shoemaker for a particular service, the traditional and lasting welting technique necessary to meet the exacting standards of a hand-welted shoe. And without a word, they had changed their practice, sold us something we did not ask for, charged us for something we had not consented to purchasing, and kept us in the dark. We immediately contacted the artisan in question to find out what had happened, when and why.

It transpired that during the pandemic, in the middle of 2020, this shoemaker decided to apply the shoemaking technique he has been using for years for some other Italian brands, one he feels makes the shoe more comfortable, onto our line of hand-welted shoes. He insists the change was made out of good faith but that is beside the point. He produced shoes using that practice, without telling us about this change. We have conducted an investigation into this construction technique. It is currently still ongoing and we have gone through our databases to assess our customers’ feedback over that time period and will continue to analyse the results. We receive regular and fulsome feedback about our artisans work, in general. The purchases from the time period, when the shoemaker, in question, changed the construct of the shoe, received the same level of feedback. It was just as positive. At his very best, this shoemaker’s work is incomparable. In all our years of building Archibald, we’ve yet to find a high luxury brand capable of surpassing our hand-welted shoe. But, awkward though it is to admit, we cannot formally vouch for this new technique, not yet. It is the method used for one of the most well-regarded Italian heritage shoe brands and we are told he made the change in good faith. But we are still assessing the mechanics of this construction. Either way, this is not really the point. To be frank, his actions were duplicitous. Some might even use a harsher term. It is not what we promised the customer, it is not what they expected to receive, and it is not in line with our broader approach, which was to maintain standards of traditional craft, honed over decades of time to deliver products that are enduring. It is not even what we expected to receive.

It has been difficult for us to process. We are a small team. Our artisans are our family. We have known most of them for over five years, we launched the Naked campaign last year to give them our support. Archibald is not simply a business for us and so to have even one of our shoemakers, one of our craftsmen, keep us in the dark, has felt like a personal betrayal. There’s also the domino effect. For through his misconduct towards us, our customers were then misled. Archibald arose as a response to false advertising, a rejection of a retail culture compelling us to consume, so it really pains us to have been part of a practice we so abhor. Everyone is flawed, but we strove, as a business, to avoid the model of selling dishonesty. We’re struggling with how to process this because customers now own shoes they thought embodied one approach to construction but are something else altogether. Your trust is something we take seriously, our reputation one we built carefully, over several years. During the pandemic, we knew with Naked we would incur heavy financial losses and we would have to absorb those throughout the year. With that in mind, knowing that even one batch of our at-cost products did not even contain the craftsmanship we sought to highlight… It is difficult to articulate what that means for us. It is difficult to process how we meaningfully address this with those of you who purchased them. We knew we had to tell you as quickly as we could. Transparency is easy when you’ve nothing to lose; it’s every bit as necessary when there’s so much on the line. So we are here, as we should be, bringing candour and doing it quickly. But that doesn’t mean it is not hard for us to endure, or overcome.

Archibald has always been about people, about the shoemakers as much as the shoes. And we know that 2020 was not a usual year. And whilst we all faced precarity in one way or another, some people responded to it differently to others. Within our community of shoemakers, whilst many faced hardship, only one violated our trust, in their search for a solution. We do not say that lightly. Their violation of trust was a violation of the law. But we have to also accept that we were rather naive. We trusted our shoemakers, all of our artisans, and whilst this shoemaker and these shoes are proving to be the anomaly, the reality is, we should have adapted to the changing situations. We should have kept a closer eye on the manufacturing, during that time. We will be discussing the issue with our craftsman and deciding on how best to proceed. We will also be following up with you all individually if we have identified you as having one of these products in your possession. With the lockdowns and travel restrictions, we are not able to address this quite as quickly as we would like. We ask for your patience as we continue forward. We want to work with you and find a solution to this together. We are currently going through all the other product categories. So far everything is fine and consistent with our brand and production ethos, but we will obviously keep everyone informed if we discover additional changes have been made.

This is not the final thing we have to say on this. It’s actually closer to the first. With regards to the shoemaker in question, how we proceed has to be guided by our values. We believe in transparency, in masterful craftsmanship, and we care about our community. About the people who purchase, and those who produce, the Archibald London brand. We all make errors in judgment and it is easy to condemn. But in an era of global collapse, as people fought to stay afloat, and to stay alive, many will have felt a need to compromise. It would be easy to point the finger and cut ties with the supplier. We live in an age of cancel culture. But at Archibald, we seek a considerate one. We cannot just champion human excellence; we must show compassion for human error. In short, we cannot recognise humanity only as long as it serves us. Now to forgive is not to forget, nor to downplay this substantial misstep. But we cannot reduce people to their utility. We remain a community of people and people make mistakes. We intend to treat this as a learning opportunity and we hope to earn back your trust, as we explore how to make amends, and bring a new level of oversight into a new Archibald era.

We hope to bring you with us.

The Team at Archibald
 

Thruth

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Amazing. I wonder how many igents are prancing around in cemented soles.

if the igents looked at the price of the shoes despite being made with low labour costs they should have known.

I like the fact that when the point that the shoes were cemented and not hand lasted and the OP brought it up to the company, they were surprised and got right on finding out how this could happen.

Really, so they farm this out to middlemen anyway despite them claiming to cut out the middlemen?
 

Rambo

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if the igents looked at the price of the shoes despite being made with low labour costs they should have known.

I like the fact that when the point that the shoes were cemented and not hand lasted and the OP brought it up to the company, they were surprised and got right on finding out how this could happen.

Really, so they farm this out to middlemen anyway despite them claiming to cut out the middlemen?
wonder how many they produced unawares of what was inside?
 

ballmouse

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I haven't closely read the owner's follow up posts (there seemed to be a number of folks who are just rubbing salt in the wound), though I feel bad for him. Having worked with some clothing manufacturers, it is very difficult. You can clearly spell out everything you want with the perfect pattern and specs, but the final product can always be off because in the end, you have a bunch of minimum wage (or close to it) workers carrying out the work.

Think about your average restaurant. A 200+ person catering order can be messed up just as easily as your Happy Meal #4 because all the work is done by folks who probably don't give a damn if they screw up and if they do, they'll probably put the onus on the customer to point it out. And even if they get your order right, it's not like these are entries in a machine that can be duplicated exactly from previous orders. Everything is still done by hand. Every factory talks about handmade as if it's the best way to make clothes, but as far as I know, it's still the ONLY way.

Even QA is difficult to implement. You have a factory that makes orders for multiple different specs. The vast majority of factories I have seen have no computers. Do restaurants QA the food orders? They just send it out. And they would have an easier time to QA because each order gets its own ticket. A production run can be 300 items all sharing the same ticket. It is difficult to track. It isn't very different from going to a bespoke tailor and even after confirming everything they manage to accidentally do something different. I think I read a SF post where a DB became a SB (or vice versa). Hell even simple things like the # of buttons or trouser configuration get screwed up. Obviously it should be implemented as the work is done, but mistakes happen and people don't catch them (or don't want to catch them). I'm guilty of a few mistakes at work that got to the client. It was never intentional but it happens.

The only real way is to have someone at the brand level take a look, but that's a very time consuming and possibly futile task. You're going to QA work on a finished product where the only recourse might be to have them redo a process that already took 2-3 months... and that's if the factory agrees they screwed up.... Hell, it's a problem when you're talking about something that is not particular visible to the naked eye. Am I going to check every single suit jacket to see if it's fully canvassed? Or every buttonhole to see if it was done by hand? How many brands do you think do this? It's mostly always been on the customer to request a refund if something is screwed up (now if this shoe brand isn't going to offer a refund, that's a mistake).

Unfortunately, anyone who was suspicious of the brand or didn't like them pre-scandal is out for blood and trying to beat a dead horse. I see a number of posters who still would be upset no matter what reparations the brand makes. It's not even clear how many of those posters even bought a shoe. It's just another event of confirmation bias at work.

Anyway, this is a tough business. I don't think anything was malicious. Would there be a similar uproar if this were some big brand like RL selling $400 Made In USA chinos that were actually made in Mexico? I don't know. Maybe. But having fanboys helps. Obviously it's easy to bash a small unknown brand because who's going to defend them? Try bashing RL and you're going to face more resistance so that you'll think twice before hitting 'Submit'.
 

The Shooman

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wonder how many they produced unawares of what was inside?
The shoes were cemented in a way that imitates Veldtschoen construction: a non functional stitched rand on top of an out turned upper with the canvass lining glued to a cheap outsole.

Also, look at all the leather scaring and growth marks in the leather upper...makes that antique job look so shabby. AND, how can one hand welt with such poor quality leather, it actually looks like a fiberboard insole. I wouldn't believe a word they say about there shoes, it is all fluff.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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6,595
I haven't closely read the owner's follow up posts (there seemed to be a number of folks who are just rubbing salt in the wound), though I feel bad for him. Having worked with some clothing manufacturers, it is very difficult. You can clearly spell out everything you want with the perfect pattern and specs, but the final product can always be off because in the end, you have a bunch of minimum wage (or close to it) workers carrying out the work.

Think about your average restaurant. A 200+ person catering order can be messed up just as easily as your Happy Meal #4 because all the work is done by folks who probably don't give a damn if they screw up and if they do, they'll probably put the onus on the customer to point it out. And even if they get your order right, it's not like these are entries in a machine that can be duplicated exactly from previous orders. Everything is still done by hand. Every factory talks about handmade as if it's the best way to make clothes, but as far as I know, it's still the ONLY way.

Even QA is difficult to implement. You have a factory that makes orders for multiple different specs. The vast majority of factories I have seen have no computers. Do restaurants QA the food orders? They just send it out. And they would have an easier time to QA because each order gets its own ticket. A production run can be 300 items all sharing the same ticket. It is difficult to track. It isn't very different from going to a bespoke tailor and even after confirming everything they manage to accidentally do something different. I think I read a SF post where a DB became a SB (or vice versa). Hell even simple things like the # of buttons or trouser configuration get screwed up. Obviously it should be implemented as the work is done, but mistakes happen and people don't catch them (or don't want to catch them). I'm guilty of a few mistakes at work that got to the client. It was never intentional but it happens.

The only real way is to have someone at the brand level take a look, but that's a very time consuming and possibly futile task. You're going to QA work on a finished product where the only recourse might be to have them redo a process that already took 2-3 months... and that's if the factory agrees they screwed up.... Hell, it's a problem when you're talking about something that is not particular visible to the naked eye. Am I going to check every single suit jacket to see if it's fully canvassed? Or every buttonhole to see if it was done by hand? How many brands do you think do this? It's mostly always been on the customer to request a refund if something is screwed up (now if this shoe brand isn't going to offer a refund, that's a mistake).

Unfortunately, anyone who was suspicious of the brand or didn't like them pre-scandal is out for blood and trying to beat a dead horse. I see a number of posters who still would be upset no matter what reparations the brand makes. It's not even clear how many of those posters even bought a shoe. It's just another event of confirmation bias at work.

Anyway, this is a tough business. I don't think anything was malicious. Would there be a similar uproar if this were some big brand like RL selling $400 Made In USA chinos that were actually made in Mexico? I don't know. Maybe. But having fanboys helps. Obviously it's easy to bash a small unknown brand because who's going to defend them? Try bashing RL and you're going to face more resistance so that you'll think twice before hitting 'Submit'.
The analogy to Happy Meals probably isn't right. The standard of McDonalds and the likes of Burger King is pretty much the same and spot on to the brand's identity anywhere in the world.

Now that brands out source their manufacturing to offshore locations, sometimes to places you wouldn't want to visit e.g. Pakistan. With manufacturers doing the same for all your rivals on short or long runs, how can you ensure your brand identity, quality and design is all included with next to zero defects?

The sector I'm in is design and inspection verification and classification. Mainly to oil & gas, engineering construction, renewables, mining and bespoke engineered equipment. From my perspective: the rag trade from a manufacturing side, has similar issues and challenges. And are comparable from a QA/QC position.

A shirt is a shirt, same as we have design and construction codes for different equipment. But of course, your shirts are different with your added brand motifs, style and fit. You've gone to a manufacturer to deliver the shirt + your brand style. Same as our clients have a baseline, but then many additional requirements on top that are unique to them based on service conditions.

The manufacturer is making for everybody, including your rivals. Example, that Malaysian non-iron shirt manufacturer.

You want your shirts delivered on time to the standard and specifications required.

Same issue I have. With bespoke engineered equipment: delivered not to specification and quality issues. Your requirements haven't been incorporated in manufacture.

In my sector same shit every time: weak Purchase Orders the standard one size fits everything from buying stationary to an oil rig; poor management of the vendor with lack of attention to Pre-Fabrication Meetings, review of vendor Inspection Test Plans, Process and Testing Procedures, etc.

You need to manage your suppliers robustly with strong Purchase Orders that ensure their QC is sound and you need only minimum intervention at the QA level.

At the personal level, buying MTM or bespoke, it's a lot easier. Don't pay until it's ready. Simple. If they want paying upfront, give them a miss.
 

Thruth

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wonder how many they produced unawares of what was inside?
Maybeeee, all of them? This is an outfit that started with "hand crafted" trainers with cemented soles. Then branched out to dress shoes. Made by, apparently, Eyeties.

They are worth $594 but you get them for $270

Maybe they just they never got the memo to hand welt the dress shoes and not cement them like trainer soles?
Screen Shot 2021-03-15 at 8.46.48 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-03-15 at 8.46.59 PM.png


But they do make nice hand made football boots. different shop. Of course they can't compare to the Big Johnny Lobb football boots that I keep trying and order but can't get.

1615863066511.png


But they know it, the hand welting.

1615863368735.png
 
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