The SF/AAAC/FNB trainwreck thread

Rambo

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I haven't closely read the owner's follow up posts (there seemed to be a number of folks who are just rubbing salt in the wound), though I feel bad for him. Having worked with some clothing manufacturers, it is very difficult. You can clearly spell out everything you want with the perfect pattern and specs, but the final product can always be off because in the end, you have a bunch of minimum wage (or close to it) workers carrying out the work.

Think about your average restaurant. A 200+ person catering order can be messed up just as easily as your Happy Meal #4 because all the work is done by folks who probably don't give a damn if they screw up and if they do, they'll probably put the onus on the customer to point it out. And even if they get your order right, it's not like these are entries in a machine that can be duplicated exactly from previous orders. Everything is still done by hand. Every factory talks about handmade as if it's the best way to make clothes, but as far as I know, it's still the ONLY way.

Even QA is difficult to implement. You have a factory that makes orders for multiple different specs. The vast majority of factories I have seen have no computers. Do restaurants QA the food orders? They just send it out. And they would have an easier time to QA because each order gets its own ticket. A production run can be 300 items all sharing the same ticket. It is difficult to track. It isn't very different from going to a bespoke tailor and even after confirming everything they manage to accidentally do something different. I think I read a SF post where a DB became a SB (or vice versa). Hell even simple things like the # of buttons or trouser configuration get screwed up. Obviously it should be implemented as the work is done, but mistakes happen and people don't catch them (or don't want to catch them). I'm guilty of a few mistakes at work that got to the client. It was never intentional but it happens.

The only real way is to have someone at the brand level take a look, but that's a very time consuming and possibly futile task. You're going to QA work on a finished product where the only recourse might be to have them redo a process that already took 2-3 months... and that's if the factory agrees they screwed up.... Hell, it's a problem when you're talking about something that is not particular visible to the naked eye. Am I going to check every single suit jacket to see if it's fully canvassed? Or every buttonhole to see if it was done by hand? How many brands do you think do this? It's mostly always been on the customer to request a refund if something is screwed up (now if this shoe brand isn't going to offer a refund, that's a mistake).

Unfortunately, anyone who was suspicious of the brand or didn't like them pre-scandal is out for blood and trying to beat a dead horse. I see a number of posters who still would be upset no matter what reparations the brand makes. It's not even clear how many of those posters even bought a shoe. It's just another event of confirmation bias at work.

Anyway, this is a tough business. I don't think anything was malicious. Would there be a similar uproar if this were some big brand like RL selling $400 Made In USA chinos that were actually made in Mexico? I don't know. Maybe. But having fanboys helps. Obviously it's easy to bash a small unknown brand because who's going to defend them? Try bashing RL and you're going to face more resistance so that you'll think twice before hitting 'Submit'.
i have to quibble with this. first, the product that they're selling is supposedly handmade, blah blah blah. if they can't even guarantee its the thing they're advertising that's a WILDLY different thing than a pant button being off. if i ordered pants and you sent me shorts, then we'd be in the same ballpark.

second, yes, the suitmaker should see that every jacket is fully canvassed. again, that's what you're paying for and that's what they stake their reputation on.

lastly, i would disagree with your malicious intent comment. this is fraud. the people have a right to be angry about this. are those who bought shoes expected to saw them open to see what's inside? every single shoe produced by that factory is in question now. is the business going to be open and honest about which shoes were produced and sent to which customers? are those customers going to receive notice like this was a recall on a defective product here in the US? if RL produced made in the USA pants and they were found to be making them in mexico that shit would be on Fox News the next day and trending on twitter.

now i'm not saying these people are scum of the earth but a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo about their commitment to excellence and their longstanding traditions and whatever the fuck else the email generator spat out doesn't excuse the fact that they committed fraud and sold people goods that weren't what they say they were. if that crashes their business then so be it. you think if A&S sold suits to customers that ended up being fused it wouldn't be on the front page and vox wouldn't be making an account just to post then you've got another thing coming.
 

ballmouse

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Sure it's marketing. But even bespoke makers talk about handmade and quality and pattern matching and attention to detail and you get suits like these:


All I'm saying is things happen. I have no idea what the story is. But mistakes (or maybe fraud) takes place. If you manage a team or use a third party, you aren't doing everything. No one does everything in their lives. You will go to a restaurant. Could that 'grass fed beef' be something else? Yes. You will have to delegate tasks at work. Could somebody forgot to do something? Write down the wrong status? Do it incorrectly? Even be embezzling money from your own company? Yes. You will have a doctor to check your health. Could the doctor misdiagnose you? Forget to check something? Not remember the procedure for your particular case? Maliciously prescribe you expensive medicine you don't need? Yes. There's implicit trust in other people to do the right thing. Hell, even you yourself could make a mistake. This scenario is guaranteed to happen to everyone in their lives at some point. It's how you act after your mistake that matters.

Of course if you're a 3rd party in fraud, I don't know how much blame you're supposed to receive. Like I said you can't check everything. Do you know if every employee you have isn't stealing from the company? If you're a pharmacy, how do you know if this expensive medicine is precisely what the patient needs or is just a way for the doctor to make some extra cash? Of course when the truth comes out everything should have been done a certain way. But 95% of the time people are doing the right thing. Are you going to kill yourself to try to see if this is that 5% scenario?

So far I don't know what the factory or what the brand is going to do. So to me, it's too early to judge because this scenario happens. Everybody faces it. I want to see what they do about it.
 
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StanleyVanBuren

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Fraud is a legal term that has a couple of specific requirements; the knowledge of falsity, and the intent to deceive. The former is hard to prove, the latter even more so. Sounds like the factory might have committed fraud but the brand is pleading innocence and while maybe they can be held responsible for letting this slip through, we're then talking about negligent misrepresentation, not fraud.
 

Rambo

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Fraud is a legal term that has a couple of specific requirements; the knowledge of falsity, and the intent to deceive. The former is hard to prove, the latter even more so. Sounds like the factory might have committed fraud but the brand is pleading innocence and while maybe they can be held responsible for letting this slip through, we're then talking about negligent misrepresentation, not fraud.
look who crawled into the house
 

Rambo

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whatever happened to Don the pudgy german guy who sat on benches? he popped into my head for some odd reason today.
 

Thruth

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i'm the new fat german, don't miss out on me Rambo Rambo
If you dress like this an post pics of it here we will definitely comment
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The Shooman

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If you dress like this an post pics of it here we will definitely comment
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Good fits, so points for that.

Top pic = too old man for a young fellow. Won't get an attractive girlfriend if he dresses like that.

2nd pic = a two button coat would be better for his size, but an excellent colour scheme and shoulders in the second pic.

Who is this guy, and hoo is his tailor?
 

Thruth

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Good fits, so points for that.

Top pic = too old man for a young fellow. Won't get an attractive girlfriend if he dresses like that.

2nd pic = a two button coat would be better for his size, but an excellent colour scheme and shoulders in the second pic.

Who is this guy, and hoo is his tailor?
his preference for suits and jackets were eBay Oxxford. There are tons of DonnyC posts here. The clown has in the past threatened legal action to take down the DW forum for posting pics of him in a lime green mankini. Why is it always Euros from outside of DW that whine when their public photos are posted? DonnieC, Sartodinapoli, Timmy Mureau, several other whiny German cunts whose aliases I've forgotten, some of which sent their Eyetie bum boy to plead his case.
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The Shooman

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What would you advise him to wear, to get an attractive girlfriend?

If he dressed more modern classic, and if had the manly attitude to back it up he might get a good looking girl.

BUT, when l look at the other pics l see a mere boy. I suspect he may be a virgin...just like Ernest was...same type of guy; full of dreams, but still a mere boy in a man's world. The lad needs to smarten up and start chasin' the girls instead of the clothes.
 
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The Shooman

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his preference for suits and jackets were eBay Oxxford. There are tons of DonnyC posts here. The clown has in the past threatened legal action to take down the DW forum for posting pics of him in a lime green mankini. Why is it always Euros from outside of DW that whine when their public photos are posted? DonnieC, Sartodinapoli, Timmy Mureau, several other whiny German cunts whose aliases I've forgotten, some of which sent their Eyetie bum boy to plead his case.
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Legal action heh.

He has done o.k for ebay Oxxford.

He may enjoy his clothes, but it may come at a price because his old style is not going to cut it with the pretty ones. The good looking girls won't give him a second look. It's o.k if a man has done well and is in his 50's, but a mere boy should style himself better so he can find himself a pretty wife.

I think he should keep to gray and navy worsteds, and bone suits for the warmer months, but keep away from the rich colours and windowpanes.

I like his clothes, but does it suit a man of his age? No. Is it going to get him the girls? NO! It is easy to indulge in dream clothes, but we still need to live in the real world.
 
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Dropbear

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If he dressed more modern classic, and if had the manly attitude to back it up he might get a good looking girl.

BUT, when l look at the other pics l see a mere boy. I suspect he may be a virgin...just like Ernest was...same type of guy; full of dreams, but still a mere boy in a man's world. The lad needs to smarten up and start chasin' the girls instead of the clothes.

This is some solid advice from Mr Shoo.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Breaking formal business attire with a pair of whimsical eggplant shoes...

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String laces as well, a good move to project gravitas and dignity in the lecture hall....
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Rambo

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Ok guys we have a coronavirus thread for this. Im moving all this over there. Please continue this conversation there.
 

Great White Snark

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Thank god he only has daughters so we don’t have to concern ourselves with a second generation of insufferable pompous baldies clogging up the internet with their fake attempts at projecting a humble and socially conscious lifestyle while jetting around the world creating a huge wardrobe of vastly overpriced and completely unnecessary bespoke brown suits which all fail to do anything to mitigate their milk bottle shoulders.
 

Sauce

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Yeah, some people are ill suited to soft shoulders. Comps looks terrible in them. Always reminds me of a pencil.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Man of the People. He dresses to play with his kids, who he leverages to make his products more marketable.

Nothing wrong with flashy cars and flashy ladies, so long as you're renting them.

He senses a paradigm shift here, the use of the archaic (I'm not part of the) jet set. Well, the jet set ended with David Niven and the largest wreath at his funeral which was from Heathrow which read: ''To the finest gentleman who ever walked through these halls. He made a porter feel like a king." That era of international travel to exotic locations as once in a lifetime experiences, or just for the immaculate and glamourous is over. Whilst limit to travelling has returned, I get the sense that he thinks it's permanent. One hopes not.

Thank god he only has daughters so we don’t have to concern ourselves with a second generation of insufferable pompous baldies clogging up the internet with their fake attempts at projecting a humble and socially conscious lifestyle while jetting around the world creating a huge wardrobe of vastly overpriced and completely unnecessary bespoke brown suits which all fail to do anything to mitigate their milk bottle shoulders.
He's positioning himself to play the environmental card, green tailoring, the next boat that's about to sail.

Yeah, some people are ill suited to soft shoulders. Comps looks terrible in them. Always reminds me of a pencil.
Are soft shoulders a sign you've never done any exercise, or is it a genetic?
 

Great White Snark

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I look at his site occasionally and I do get the feeling that the jig is up - or at least may be heading that way.
Until the last year it seemed like he was getting a new suit made almost every week (what does he do with them all?)
Now travel to Italy is restricted and he doesn’t appear too interested in English suits, so his themes seem to have shifted of necessity. Also surely I’m not the only reader bored to death with seeing him in yet another brown suit made by some unknown ‘artisan’ at vast cost. Surely the aspirational novelty of seeing what you could buy if you were rich enough to afford countless bespoke suits (or lucky enough to get freebies!) is wearing thin now?
His collaborations seem to sell well so he’ll probably be alright either way - there seem to be enough gullible fools with more money than sense willing to overpay for a brown overcoat or overpriced polo shirt.
 

Sauce

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I saw his book about bespoke stuff in a clothes shop. I didn't flick through it so can't say too much about it but I went in a few weeks later and all the copies had been sold, or returned. He's making a living out of it and the shelf life seems to be good for a while yet. I'm a bit past the blog thing these days but good luck to him. Better than working. Can't stand that twat, Hugo Jacomet, he's way worse. Who talks like that in this day and age? I can listen to Handcut Radio if its an interesting guest (not always the case) but the presenter really grates..." Hello dear, wonderful listeners"... question format is always the same as well.
 

chesterfield

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He's making a living out of it and the shelf life seems to be good for a while yet. I'm a bit past the blog thing these days but good luck to him. Better than working.
I feel similarly. I'm not a fan or regular reader, and of course there's a lot of schlock on there, but I don't have negative associations with PS. That could change with time and more exposure I guess. I wonder if Dropbear Dropbear has been nursing his disdain for an extended period of time. It reads that way.

After seeing the quoted instagram post I went and read the corresponding article on his site; the third photo, of him standing outside holding an espresso, made an impression on me. It compelled me to reflect on fatherhood; I think it's a good photograph.

My family is without question the most joyful and important thing in my life. Why is this relevant to Permanent Style? This demographic is not well-represented in the images of fashion in general, and menswear in particular.

That rings true for me.

I'm not a father. Are you?
 

Kingstonian

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I look at his site occasionally and I do get the feeling that the jig is up - or at least may be heading that way.
Until the last year it seemed like he was getting a new suit made almost every week (what does he do with them all?)
Now travel to Italy is restricted and he doesn’t appear too interested in English suits, so his themes seem to have shifted of necessity. Also surely I’m not the only reader bored to death with seeing him in yet another brown suit made by some unknown ‘artisan’ at vast cost. Surely the aspirational novelty of seeing what you could buy if you were rich enough to afford countless bespoke suits (or lucky enough to get freebies!) is wearing thin now?
His collaborations seem to sell well so he’ll probably be alright either way - there seem to be enough gullible fools with more money than sense willing to overpay for a brown overcoat or overpriced polo shirt.
Buying expensive bespoke suits in Naples will be even more difficult. Then there is the post covid ‘death of tailoring’ to consider.

So he is doing more about jumpers and more casual wear. It is still expensive though. ‘Buying intelligently’ is stretching credibility. Not many dads of his age in Peckham will be spending so much on clothes. Maybe he will try to target a different clothing market.

Maybe he will knock it all on the head, like Foo or New York Ranger.

He still gets lots of comments on his articles though. So it’s not the end of the road yet.
 

Kingstonian

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Kingstonian Kingstonian what happened with the NYR? He used to buy plenty of suits, and loved doing it. Why did he give it up? Please explain
He packed it in. He then started to spend money on watching Manchester City play football in England. He also adopted what he called football hooligan attire.

It is all documented in the confessional thread on Styleforum. I will see if I can find that.

 

The Shooman

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He packed it in. He then started to spend money on watching Manchester City play football in England. He also adopted what he called football hooligan attire.

It is all documented in the confessional thread on Styleforum. I will see if I can find that.


Wow so sad, the poor man was never himself. Doesn't sound like Mafoofan was either.
 
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