Trouble in Palestine and Israel


“As we strive for peace, Gaza and the West Bank should be reunited under a single governance structure, ultimately under a revitalized Palestinian Authority, as we all work toward a two-state solution,”

Does revitalise mean Mahmoud Abbas is out?
 
Come on dude you have to be able to work through this propaganda critically.

Edit - I mean this is just ridiculous


“I understood he was raping her”

They were playing catch with here sawed off tit.

They might as well have called them dirty savages.

I am sorry, just to clarify, are you now saying that the Oct 7th events did not happen as told, that the rapes did not happen?
 
I am sorry, just to clarify, are you now saying that the Oct 7th events did not happen as told, that the rapes did not happen?
I don’t know about any rapes but October 7 did not happen as told. See Haaretz’s own reporting above for confirmation. I believe the link shows the original Hebrew in case you might deem the English translation unsuitable. That is not the only report confirming the story to be something other than what was presented to use either.
 
I don’t know about any rapes but October 7 did not happen as told. See Haaretz’s own reporting above for confirmation. I believe the link shows the original Hebrew in case you might deem the English translation unsuitable. That is not the only report confirming the story to be something other than what was presented to use either.

So no rapes happened?
 
Abbas makes a bad call again, appeasing Hamas zealots. Seriously, this is the time to step up and show the world that a two state solution is viable and will be peaceful - not revert to this sort of bullshit Holocaust and 10/7 denial. Of Hamas/Iran is weakened enough there is a real opportunity for Palestinian independence, but this isn’t helping.

 
you have proof? fork it over.

That’s the thing - in your big tin foil world, proof is well above what any other rape victim would require - it doesn’t really exist, short of the dead coming back to life and videocalling you. And You’d probably call it fake news.

I’ve seen enough terrifying gopro videos shot by the terrorists on Oct 7th, I’ve seen the women being thrown into the back of cars (not always alive, may god hold them in peace) with blood on their crotches and backs or in between their tighs, have watched and read enough news about what happened that day to be horrifyingly comfortable knowing those things happened.

I don’t need to repost them here, nor do I want to. They are absolutely terrible, and embedded in my mind forever. You’re smart enough to find them if you really wanted to.

You, on the other hand, will reject everything and anything that comes your way as Israeli propaganda, justifying some sort of master plan that makes no fucking sense. If Israel wanted to end Gaza, it would take all of 30’ minutes - making this campaign and the last 20 years of war one of the most ineffective and inefficient campaigns in military history.

You choose to believe anything and everyone that comes from Hamas and the radical islam nonsense, yet automatically dismiss anything that comes out of Israel.

You hold and highlight one single sentence out of one single article to contend that the attack was a made up story, that none of this happened as told. 362 people lost their life in the Nova festival. I think most people will accept that it is entirely possible that a fraction of those lost their lives in cross fire. The problematic bit is with folks like you, who take that bit and stretch it into “this is all a bif Israeli fabrication”. As I said, that’s your crazy universe - I choose not to live in it.
 
That’s the thing - in your big tin foil world, proof is well above what any other rape victim would require - it doesn’t really exist, short of the dead coming back to life and videocalling you. And You’d probably call it fake news.
no, i wouldn't. don't try and smear me with this broad brush. the only reason i'm questioning this "story" is because just about everything from that day has proved to be falsified in one way or another. they're running the iraq war playbook here and it doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to figure out. hell, even someone who pays attention to online news badly would see all the posted and deleted tweets from the IDF trying to manufacture a story.

I’ve seen enough terrifying gopro videos shot by the terrorists on Oct 7th, I’ve seen the women being thrown into the back of cars (not always alive, may god hold them in peace) with blood on their crotches and backs or in between their tighs, have watched and read enough news about what happened that day to be horrifyingly comfortable knowing those things happened.
i have not seen these but i absolutely believe you that they happened. i certainly have never once disputed hamas killed people on that day.

You, on the other hand, will reject everything and anything that comes your way as Israeli propaganda, justifying some sort of master plan that makes no fucking sense.
no, i absolutely won't. again, you're just pushing back on my disputing the details of the reported story. it doesn't mean i don't believe that these things could have taken place. if by 'master plan' you mean israel trying to commit ethnic cleansing, then yes, all part of the plan. several officials are openly talking on the record at this point about this very thing.

You choose to believe anything and everyone that comes from Hamas and the radical islam nonsense, yet automatically dismiss anything that comes out of Israel.
no, no i absolutely do not.
You hold and highlight one single sentence out of one single article to contend that the attack was a made up story,
never said the attack was made up. i said they bullshitted the numbers, which they've now come out and publicly admitted. the attack is on video that was never once in question.
I think most people will accept that it is entirely possible that a fraction of those lost their lives in cross fire.
a lot more than a fraction and that is the entire premise of the post yet you had to go on this entire fucking diatribe about how i'm a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist to end up exactly where we started.

The problematic bit is with folks like you, who take that bit and stretch it into “this is all a bif Israeli fabrication”. As I said, that’s your crazy universe - I choose not to live in it.
at this point you've completely concocted this belief from thin air. its honestly pretty impressive. if you want to keep on believing it then be my guest. i'm going to keep posting about ethnic cleansing and the massacre of innocent civilians.
 
. the only reason i'm questioning this "story" is because just about everything from that day has proved to be falsified in one way or another.
This is simply not true. Tell me what else is “falsified”. Which bits are you concretely pushing back on?
- there was a cease fire up to oct 6. Yea/no?
- on oct 7th, roughly 2000 hamas terrorists invaded israel, targeted civilian targets on purpose? Yes/no?
- in that processed, hamas terrorists purposefuly killed/raped/burned civilians. Yes/no?
- during this attack, ~1200 israelis were killed, and 242 were taken as hostages back to Gaza. Yes/no?

. if by 'master plan' you mean israel trying to commit ethnic cleansing, then yes, all part of the plan. several officials are openly talking on the record at this point about this very thing.
dude, be serious. As I said, if Israel was trying to ethnically cleanse Gaza, this is the worst campaign in history. If this was the goal, it would be done in 30’.
Palestinian population in Gaza and the West Bank has increased 8x since 1948. The whole “ethnic cleansing” narrative is anti zionist/antisemitic bs and you knownit.

And theb“Several officials” are less than a handful of nut jobs who belong to the far right bits and ends of this coalition and who have absolutely 0% weight on actual decisions of this caliber. It’s like citing the pillow dude as a major contributor to Trump’s diplomatic agenda.


never said the attack was made up. i said they bullshitted the numbers, which they've now come out and publicly admitted. the attack is on video that was never once in question.
I asked you point blank, you said “you didn’t know about any rapes”. Which way is it?


a lot more than a fraction
360 people died in Nova. The only place I could find any info on the helicopter thing is the link you sent me. There are no numbers there. So tell me, how many you think? 3? 30? 200? And where is the number coming from? And regardless of which number it is, how does it change the answers to the questions above??


. i'm going to keep posting about ethnic cleansing and the massacre of innocent civilians.
please do. I’ll keep on calling on your antisemitic tin foil BS
 
Just fucking did, for the fourth time. There’s no one single number disputing the 1200 or the 242.
Only claim is that Hamas did not know about the festival ahead of the attack. So fucking what, they still decided to go after the civilians there, and raped and murdered 362 of them (give or take whatever number was killed by cross fire, allegedly).

So fucking what? I’ll ask again, what the fuck are you pushing back against??
 
Just fucking did, for the fourth time. There’s no one single number disputing the 1200 or the 242.
Only claim is that Hamas did not know about the festival ahead of the attack. So fucking what, they still decided to go after the civilians there, and raped and murdered 362 of them (give or take whatever number was killed by cross fire, allegedly).

So fucking what? I’ll ask again, what the fuck are you pushing back against??
Four times? You know what, go for it. I tried. You win. All Palestinians are terrorists and deserve to be killed.
 
Four times? You know what, go for it. I tried. You win. All Palestinians are terrorists and deserve to be killed.

Glad you can acknowledge you don’t have a fucking point.
Also, Did I (or anyone else you can quote) has said all Palestinians are terrorists and deserve to be killed? Wondering how you made the jump from me questioning exactly what your fucking point is to this.
 
Four times?
here - tell me:

Assessment in the security establishment: Hamas did not know in advance about the Nova festival, and recognized it from the air​

The police investigation found that Hamas planned to reach Kibbutz Reim and other kibbutzim, and found out about the party in real time. It also shows that a military helicopter that fired at terrorists apparently also hit some revelers

There is a growing assessment in the security establishment that the terrorists who carried out the massacre on October 7 did not know in advance about the Nova festival held near Kibbutz Ra'im, and decided to come to the place after discovering that a mass event was taking place there. The security system's assessment relies, among other things, on the investigations of the terrorists and the investigation of the incident by the police, from which it appears that the terrorists intended to reach Kibbutz Ra'im and nearby kibbutzim. According to the police, 364 people were killed at the festiva

Senior officials estimate that Hamas found out about the existence of the party using drones or parachutes, and directed the terrorists to the location in their communication system. In a video from a body camera of one of the terrorists, he is heard asking a captured citizen for directions to reach the bad guys, even though he was in a different area. One of the findings that strengthen the assessment, according to the police and other security officials, is that the first terrorists arrived at the party from the direction of Route 232 and not from the direction of the fence. According to a police source, an investigation into the incident also revealed that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived at the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists and apparently also hit some of the revelers who were there

In addition, according to police sources, the party was planned to be held on Thursday and Friday, and on Tuesday evening of the same week, the army approved the organizers of the event to hold it on Saturday as well, after the request of the organizers. The change at the last minute reinforces the assessment that Hamas did not know about the incident

We estimate that about 4,400 people were present at the event, the vast majority of whom managed to escape following a decision to disperse the event that was made four minutes after the rocket barrage," says a senior police officer. The police analysis shows that many of the party participants managed to escape because it was decided to stop the party half an hour before shots were heard
 
According to a police source, an investigation into the incident also revealed that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived at the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists and apparently also hit some of the revelers who were there
 
So after half a dozen posts, in which you questioned the rapes and “just about everything else that happen that day”, the only point you are actually making is that some people at Nova festival, of the total 362 civilian casualties, died in cross fire. Which as I said, no one is disputing. While there are no additional reports on the helicopter story, it is entirely possible that there were cross fire casualties.

Also as I pointed repeatedly, you have no fucking clue on whether it was 3, 30 or 300. Cause thar article has no numbers, and as far as I could tell, there’s no other source on the internet that gives a number. So there’s no “fudging of the numbers” happening.

And after claiming that “just about everything that happened that day was lied on”, you have no fucking claim to support it.

You also questioned the rapes (“I don’t know about any rapes”), and now you are backtracking on that and accepting that Hamas targeted innocent civilians for rape and murder.

Glad we were able to clarify that there was not much more than frantic BS handwaving on your end.
 
So after half a dozen posts, in which you questioned the rapes and “just about everything else that happen that day”, the only point you are actually making is that some people at Nova festival, of the total 362 civilian casualties, died in cross fire. Which as I said, no one is disputing. While there are no additional reports on the helicopter story, it is entirely possible that there were cross fire casualties.
so nice of you to join the party.
Also as I pointed repeatedly, you have no fucking clue on whether it was 3, 30 or 300.
i don't, and neither do you.
Cause thar article has no numbers, and as far as I could tell, there’s no other source on the internet that gives a number. So there’s no “fudging of the numbers” happening.
yes there is, because israel and the media widely reported the atrocities from hamas that day. we're just splitting hairs here so there's really no point in continuing this.
And after claiming that “just about everything that happened that day was lied on”, you have no fucking claim to support it.
i hope that was a typo.
You also questioned the rapes (“I don’t know about any rapes”), and now you are backtracking on that and accepting that Hamas targeted innocent civilians for rape and murder.
no i'm not. i am consistent that i have no idea about any of the rapes because i'm quite honestly uninterested in that at this point. it happened over a month ago and the ethnic cleansing is still occurring. if the fact that murders and rapes are your justification for this ongoing atrocity then there just isn't anything to talk about here.
Glad we were able to clarify that there was not much more than frantic BS handwaving on your end.
right the wholesale slaughter of thousands of people is just "bs handwaving" on my part. ok, got it. good to know who the upstanding moral one is around here.
 
so nice of you to join the party.

i don't, and neither do you.

yes there is, because israel and the media widely reported the atrocities from hamas that day. we're just splitting hairs here so there's really no point in continuing this.

i hope that was a typo.

no i'm not. i am consistent that i have no idea about any of the rapes because i'm quite honestly uninterested in that at this point. it happened over a month ago and the ethnic cleansing is still occurring. if the fact that murders and rapes are your justification for this ongoing atrocity then there just isn't anything to talk about here.

right the wholesale slaughter of thousands of people is just "bs handwaving" on my part. ok, got it. good to know who the upstanding moral one is around here.

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He’s retired. Not part of the government. Not a decision maker. His opinion is as important as yours or mine. He’s like Trump’s pillow guy.

Also, care to list the neverending trove of Radical Islam “spokesmen” who daily call for the elimination of the state of Israel and all jews around the world? We’re gonna need a bigger server for that.
 
He’s retired. Not part of the government. Not a decision maker. His opinion is as important as yours or mine. He’s like Trump’s pillow guy.
Sure he’s a lone wolf and no one shares his opinion.


Also, care to list the neverending trove of Radical Islam “spokesmen” who daily call for the elimination of the state of Israel and all jews around the world?
Honestly what the fuck do you expect at this point? The Jewish state is on an extermination campaign of Muslims. Do you really just expect them to sit on their hands and say it’s fine and dandy? Just how deluded are you about what is happening???

We’re gonna need a bigger server for that.
Your donations go a long way to birthing the spread of the message of peace in the Middle East.
 
Sure he’s a lone wolf and no one shares his opinion.
Doesn’t matter how many people share his opinion (hint - not too many) , as long as they are not decision makers, they are irrelevant to what happens in Gaza.


Honestly what the fuck do you expect at this point? The Jewish state is on an extermination campaign of Muslims.

Lol. This is the best one so far - are you fucking serious right now?
 
Do you really just expect them to sit on their hands and say it’s fine and dandy? Just how deluded are you about what is happening???

There’s quite a long way from decrying what’s happening in Gaza to the extermination of the Jewish people. But I’m sure you know this well, and you seem to be perfectly fine with it.
 
There’s quite a long way from decrying what’s happening in Gaza to the extermination of the Jewish people. But I’m sure you know this well, and you seem to be perfectly fine with it.
im not fine with it nor did i say i was. you keep doing pathetic bullshit and its not going to get you anywhere.

Lol. This is the best one so far - are you fucking serious right now?
are they not engaging in an ethnic cleansing of gaza right now?
Doesn’t matter how many people share his opinion (hint - not too many) , as long as they are not decision makers, they are irrelevant to what happens in Gaza.
so everyone but the boss? how about this asshole?



or maybe the opposition leader?


the finance minister?


speaker of the house maybe?


i can keep going if you need more references to rebut this imbecilic idea that its "just the people on the outside who don't control anything" narrative.
 

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