A Futile and Stupid Gesture: The History of the First Trump Presidency & Q-Anon

Lord Buckley said:
Edit (my point was): the Trump world view recognises this, I dig it, as do many Americans. And also Europe. We have reached a fork in the road as regards the future of humanity and dare I say, civilization.
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First thing is first. This isn't the Trump world view. And probably the root of your confusion. And we have reached an inflection point in civilization, which hopefully we choose to move forward instead of retrench at best or self destruct at worst.


Lord Buckley said:
as real poverty is erased.
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I think you've answered your own question. If we can eliminate poverty for all of humankind, then we have succeeded.


Lord Buckley said:
And you agree this goes for all labour: blue, white collar and the professions?
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Yes.
Lord Buckley said:
You also add dying industries: are these industries truly dying through automation or just being shifted to the developing and third world?
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They are absolutely dying. Through automation and obsolescence. If you propose bringing back buggy whip makers, wheelwrights and lamp trimmers, I would love to hear the rationale. (Seriously)

Lord Buckley said:
In my own experience and I have no real experience of factory work
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And this is a huge problem for people weighing in on these matters. I'm not sure if I've mentioned it here or not, but I have a standing offer for anyone that wants to see a real unskilled factory up close. It is one of the most inhumane and soul less milieus the human mind can fathom. When you or anyone else goes waxing poetic about the whole working class hero nonsense you look to anything objective person to have created the modern Noble Savage avatar.

It's mostly people just trying to work and have a family, and not only is most of the working class looking for opportunity, but so is the middle and the upper. That's a basic human quality that 90% of the species possesses whether they are in Davenport, Iowa or Lashkargah. Give them something to do and they will. Give the rest a minimum income and look after their healthcare and let them smoke meth.

The old factory needs closing post haste. It has basically nothing to do with what you describe below, which is what we should be concentrating on. Not saving the fucking Carrier factory as a publicity stunt which is going to cost is dearly in the long run.

Lord Buckley said:
only bespoke fabrication and manufacturing to the oil & gas, power generation, marine and renewable industries which is generally executed by highly trained engineering technicians, time served apprentices, craft and tradesman i.e. the elite of the working class. Historically they have earned decent middle class wages.

But when I first went to work in a developing nation and this has been repeated in my extensive experience across the globe, is that the most modern manufacturing facilities have been found in Germany, Italy and then the developing world. The UK, France and even the Netherlands have equipment that is not as modern as what can be found in places such as Brazil, South Africa and India. The difference is, the work processes, the work ethic and efficiency is much higher and to a better quality in the western nations. You might get 3-6 workers in Brazil or India (and I have examples of much more) carrying out what one person does in the UK.

My argument is this: when you use the cheapness of labour in the developing world, which also include the cost-effectiveness of setting-up new facilities compared to the west, this may be hiding awful inefficiencies, which when equalled, will make your decision a bad one as the most highly skilled and efficient/effective work force was where you relocated your facility from.
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I'm all about efficiencies, we have no quarrel there. But the work ethic and certainly the quality is not dependent on location, only the people making decisions. It reminds me of how much everyone bagged on the Japanese. Turns out their shit was way better. Oops. I think you'll find that being in far flung places allows companies to hide shit quality control and cut a lot of corners.
 
doghouse said:
How about: Well it's a fact he actually won except those non illegal votes against him from a U.S. state?
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I was contending the point about how the majority of the country voted against him, not anything about the ridiculous illegals claims.
 
Rambo said:
I was contending the point about how the majority of the country voted against him, not anything about the ridiculous illegals claims.
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Um yeah, that's the part which you are incorrect about. California has been a US state since 1850.
 
doghouse said:
Um yeah, that's the part which you are incorrect about. California has been a US state since 1850.
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correct, but if you remove california, then the majority of the states would have voted for trump. which was exactly what i said.
 
Rambo said:
you started it
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But correctly stating that more Americans voted for Hillary than Trump. Which you responded is incorrect except for the California voters. Which also happens to be known as correct.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

There is literally no other way to describe the aggregate vote total other than Hillary got millions more.
 
doghouse said:
But correctly stating that more Americans voted for Hillary than Trump. Which you responded is incorrect except for the California voters. Which also happens to be known as correct.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

There is literally no other way to describe the aggregate vote total other than Hillary got millions more.
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correct but the phrase you used to describe it was "a majority of the country." california tips the balance because of its size, but if you take it out, a majority of the country (and by country I'm referring to number of states) would have voted for el trumpo:

Electoral-Map-2016-Recount-2016.jpg


overwhelmingly red there
 
Rambo said:
correct but the phrase you used to describe it was "a majority of the country." california tips the balance because of its size, but if you take it out, a majority of the country (and by country I'm referring to number of states) would have voted for el trumpo:

Electoral-Map-2016-Recount-2016.jpg


overwhelmingly red there
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Majority of the country = majority of citizens. I have not seen any dirt clods or sand dunes in the voting booth that I can recall.

Geographic area is irrelevant to vote totals.
 
Monkeyface said:
If my grandma had wheels she'd be a bicycle!
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This is totally off-topic, but I was cross-examining an elderly, self-represented and very stubborn litigant in court some years ago when he responded to one of my questions by replying, "If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a choo-choo train!"
 
Journeyman said:
This is totally off-topic, but I was cross-examining an elderly, self-represented and very stubborn litigant in court some years ago when he responded to one of my questions by replying, "If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a choo-choo train!"
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Ha, it must've been a ridiculous question as well then. Ballsy to say that in court though.
 
Journeyman said:
This is totally off-topic, but I was cross-examining an elderly, self-represented and very stubborn litigant in court some years ago when he responded to one of my questions by replying, "If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a choo-choo train!"
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Ha, it must've been a ridiculous question as well then. Ballsy to say that in court though.
 
Lord Buckley said:
That's the problem. The above is not an effective refute is it?

I don't see any real argument from the Democrats, or the Left in the UK. It all ends in swear words, comparisons to Hitler or Putin conspiracy theories. For there is no effective antidote to a democratically elected President (or Brexit for that matter) who is implementing his policies and mandate, which remains utterly agreeable to those that elected him.

I think it's going to be great!
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It is about damn time.

I wish I could say the same for Canada, with Jihadi Justin in charge. For the first time in my life I am considering paying the membership costs to join the conservative party in order to vote in someone I think has a shot at turning Canada away from becoming North America's Sweden.
 
Arnathor said:
It is about damn time.

I wish I could say the same for Canada, with Jihadi Justin in charge. For the first time in my life I am considering paying the membership costs to join the conservative party in order to vote in someone I think has a shot at turning Canada away from becoming North America's Sweden.
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I just want to make sure Arizona, New Mexico, California and Texas don't become North America's Mexico.
 
Arnathor said:
It is about damn time.

I wish I could say the same for Canada, with Jihadi Justin in charge. For the first time in my life I am considering paying the membership costs to join the conservative party in order to vote in someone I think has a shot at turning Canada away from becoming North America's Sweden.
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He's a real beaut, you just know right on the autocue he'll come out with the statement that there is no Canadian culture. Same as in Sweden and now that French presidential candidate. I see you guys are on target with submitting to the blasphemy laws now too.

I was in a teleconference for part of the day and the message I was receiving that a number of our US based clients are in with Trump, albeit if he can keep his back close to the wall and avoid all the knives.
 
InstaHate said:
I just want to make sure Arizona, New Mexico, California and Texas don't become North America's Mexico.
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I was at the gym this morning and my trainer was talking about this very subject and the fact that you already have a wall and that Trump was only extending it and having watched Breaking Bad and various Netflix mini-series about narcos and cocaine cowboys he couldn't understand what the issue was. As you know, being apolitical, I felt I couldn't possibly comment...
 
Rambo said:
i suppose its a good thing you're coming. maybe the illegals will start to emigrate in order to avoid you.
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At least I'm not captain obvious! If you don't count California, America would have less states OLO
 
So, how long before Michael Hastings' case gets looked at again?
 
Divide and rule plus bread and circuses can distract the masses for a time.

However, in the end you have to give something. The establishment have shown a reluctance to do that and have got too far out of touch with the masses.

The paleos would pull the whole political structure down and start from scratch. The rationale being there is nothing for a true conservative to conserve. Paleos have never got much traction though.

Trump -surprisingly - has a common touch, or populist appeal. So he may do some of the swamp draining. He is certainly prepared to take on opponents. This seems to appeal to his supporters.

He may be toppled but he may have started the ball rolling. He needs an understudy in case he does fall. Pence is not that man unfortunately.
 
Kingstonian said:
Trump -surprisingly - has a common touch, or populist appeal.
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Only among total fucking idiots.

I forget where I read it, but someone wrote that Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man, a weak man's idea of a strong man, and a stupid man's idea of a smart man. I agree a thousand percent.
 
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