The Continental Forum Member Bored At Work Extravaganza

Alfanauts said:
Yes, I would like to see the shapes and the stitching in detail, mainly of the sleeve buttonholes, but also of the front buttonholes, don't bother with pictures front and back, front is ok, but it should really be a macro picture....I want to see if they are made by hand or machine ....
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no problem, I will take the pictures. I guarantee that they are made by hand, there is no way such a sloppy buttonholes are made by machine
 
robertito said:
no problem, I will take the pictures. I guarantee that they are made by hand, there is no way such a sloppy buttonholes are made by machine
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OMG. O-rib. A real UNTAILOR. I will post some perfect made by hand button-holes tonight ....
 
Yes never worry how a jacket looks overall. Just obsess about the button holes.
 
Alfanauts said:
In that case THE UNTAILOR should be shot IMMEDIATELY in the GENITALS. Could you do me a favor and make a macro pic of the front and sleeve buttonholes (unbuttoned)? I cannot believe this is bespoke....
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What have the buttonholes have to do with how a jacket fits?
 
ElioDA said:
What have the buttonholes have to do with how a jacket fits?
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Simple: UNTAILORING! I wanted to check if the uUNTAILORING was at other places as well, and the button holes are a good proxy without opening the jacket ...
 
Alfanauts said:
To make a point: does that jacket have a better fit? (hope the answer will be yes ...)
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can you imagine that the answer is no? :fadancing:
It does have a better fit. I also had quite a few more jackets made after that one.

What I learnt from that (one of my first bespoke) experiences is that usually you get what you pay for. what was a clear example.
 
ElioDA said:
What have the buttonholes have to do with how a jacket fits?
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Alfanauts said:
Simple: UNTAILORING! I wanted to check if the uUNTAILORING was at other places as well, and the button holes are a good proxy without opening the jacket ...
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7PzgejY.jpg


Do you think this jacket fits me well?
 
robertito said:
can you imagine that the answer is no? :fadancing:
It does have a better fit. I also had quite a few more jackets made after that one.

What I learnt from that (one of my first bespoke) experiences is that usually you get what you pay for. what was a clear example.
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Voilà! Be obsessive about:
1. Button Holes
2. Intelligent use of "Crin"
3. Intelligent use of "saucisses"
and some other details ....
 
ElioDA said:
7PzgejY.jpg


Do you think this jacket fits me well?
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If you had it made for you and not your bigger brother something should be right. But I will stop trying to be helpful altogether and let you iGents walk around in badly adjusted UNsuits made by UNtailors.... I now understand why my spiritual guide SARTO left and WILL NEVER COME BACK! HE WAS RIGHT!
 
Alfanauts said:
But I will stop trying to be helpful altogether and let you iGents walk around in badly adjusted UNsuits made by UNtailors.... I now understand why my spiritual guide SARTO left and WILL NEVER COME BACK! HE WAS RIGHT!
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Perhaps your knowledge is more appreciated over there:

The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

I can see Sarto trained you well, given that this is at least your second farewell!

fxh said:
Yes never worry how a jacket looks overall. Just obsess about the button holes.
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And always carry extra fresh underwear with you in case you get overly excited over the "perfect" finishing stitches/ buttonholes.
 
Alfanauts said:
If you had it made for you and not your bigger brother something should be right. But I will stop trying to be helpful altogether and let you iGents walk around in badly adjusted UNsuits made by UNtailors.... I now understand why my spiritual guide SARTO left and WILL NEVER COME BACK! HE WAS RIGHT!
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Well, just like your spiritual guide Sarto, some of your stuff is useful, other stuff not so much. Stick around.

BTW, I fully agree with your earlier point how silly it is of those iGents who travel to Napoli only to have their jackets done in heavy weight flannels and tweeds, because "it drapes so much better". Of course it does! Any decent tailor can work with that.
But the point of the Neapolitan masters is that they have the experience and skills to deal with very lightweight cloth, which other tailors can only turn into a crumply mess.
 
Scherensammler said:
Perhaps your knowledge is more appreciated over there:

The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

I can see Sarto trained you well, given that this is at least your second farewell!



And always carry extra fresh underwear with you in case you get overly excited over the "perfect" finishing stitches/ buttonholes.
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I shall ignore that SNEER! As I was on the verge of making you a compliment! I will however twist that compliment now a little bit as sneers are UNELEGANT, and I was not talking about leaving, just that I understood why SARTO left. Now, here is that compliment: although Scherensammler (and I really hate "Sammler" in general, hoarding is an empty activity for people with no talent suffering from depression!) has done his best to post a thread with patterns and clear explanations on how they affect the fit, no-one has the INTELLIGENCE TO PIECE IT TOGETHER! IT IS LIKE PLAYING CLASSICAL MUSIC! It is not because you have learned how to play that you can be a good interpreter of a piece ... An UNTAILOR is like a PIANIST HAMMERING LISZT! He does not see the big picture, he does not see the masonic gnosis in Bach, nor does he see the strong links to that in Liszt. That type of tailor, who made the jacket of Robertito, does not understand, he works with patterns like a housewife making a dress with BURDA PATTERNS!!! This is why systems destroyed the knowledge in part. Before the "systems" the measurements would be followed by an intermediate step, the creation of the "toile" and the adjustment of that "toile" and that would be put on a table and from there a first pattern would be cut. The pattern would be derived from the customer and not from the system. The current use of systems is limiting and will allow UNTAILORING much more easily. So all these UNTAILORED jackets and suits are the consequence of a tailor following a system and then, like a brainless hen, trying to adapt the standard pattern to a non-standard customer. This is why people like Kiton shit on bespoke! And they are right! Because this type of bespoke without holistic vision is of lesser quality than good RTW or MTO!
 
ElioDA said:
Well, just like your spiritual guide Sarto, some of your stuff is useful, other stuff not so much. Stick around.

BTW, I fully agree with your earlier point how silly it is of those iGents who travel to Napoli only to have their jackets done in heavy weight flannels and tweeds, because "it drapes so much better". Of course it does! Any decent tailor can work with that.
But the point of the Neapolitan masters is that they have the experience and skills to deal with very lightweight cloth, which other tailors can only turn into a crumply mess.
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Thank you. And this is the essence of what I have been posting when it comes to fabrics!!! BTW: I just want to help and I thought this would be more effective with humor. I have not enough time to go in depth in certain subjects, if one wants to reply seriously to some posts here, it would take several days of piecing posts together. I am old, but not retired....
 
FriendCustomer said:
Sad French Belgium condom fit high super number obsession with button holes. Verri sad really.
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You are still angry because you were exposed as UNknowledgable? Perhaps you might get over it and post something useful? Did I treat people as genitalia extensii here? I would rather wear a quality condom than a nomi-wanki-suit made in 400 grams HEXENTWEED!
 
Alfanauts said:
You are still angry because you were exposed as UNknowledgable? Perhaps you might get over it and post something useful? Did I treat people as genitalia extensii here? I would rather wear a quality condom than a nomi-wanki-suit made in 400 grams HEXENTWEED!
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Ololol. Yes I was Exposed as fan of Milano Unica and of traditional English cloth. Guilty as charged.

You on the other hand are a broke fan of condom fit s220 African dictator suits, only Milanese to chest, Parisian cran to lapel, and pointy shoo to feet. Please post some more pictures of your sad thrifted bespoke fantasies.
 
FriendCustomer said:
Ololol. Yes I was Exposed as fan of Milano Unica and of traditional English cloth. Guilty as charged.

You on the other hand are a broke fan of condom fit s220 African dictator suits, only Milanese to chest, Parisian cran to lapel, and pointy shoo to feet. Please post some more pictures of your sad thrifted bespoke fantasies.
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So to sum it up: you DON'T know the largest fabric trade fair is not open to the public, you don't know it does male and female fabrics;
you DON'T know that there is a link between the execution of details by a tailor and his ability to execute an overall cut;
you DON't seem to know that only light fabrics are revealing of the ability of a tailor to execute;
you DON'T know Milanese buttonholes are fragile by design...
And you are a professional looking down on others. Right, I got it, sorry to be so ignorant.
 
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Alfanauts said:
So to sum it up: you DON'T know the largest fabric trade fair is not open to the public, you don't know it does male and female fabrics;
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Its a trade show of course it is for the trade. When did I say differently? Although their definition of trade is extremely broad and students can attend. Also if one really wanted to go scalpers sell tickets. Of course they have men and women's fabrics, I said was Milan was better for men interested in bespoke. Please let me know where I said otherwise.

Alfanauts said:
you DON'T know that there is a link between the execution of details by a tailor and his ability to execute an overall cut;
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Correct. I don't think there is link. It used to be working button holes , colored lining or tickets pockets that identified bespoke vs RTW for philistines such as yourself. Now that those so called bespoke features are featured in RTW, losers such as yourself and Your butt boy Jacomet focus on other insignificant details like the Milanese and Parisian cran. Plenty of shit tailors do these details. Please see Kevin seah or Louparelli who do a Milanese.



Alfanauts said:
you DON't seem to know that only light fabrics are revealing of the ability of a tailor to execute.
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This is false. They may require different skills but both light and heavy fabrics can reveal the ability of a tailor. However for a philistine such as your self who is only interested in condom fit clothing then you are correct heavy weight cloth is utterly useless.

Alfanauts said:
you DON'T know Milanese buttonholes are fragile by design...
And you are a professional looking down on others. Right, I got it, sorry to be so ignorant.
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When did I comment on the fragility of the Milanese? You must have me confused with that ignorant ConchitaWurst ConchitaWurst
I'm only look down on you and him.
 
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I have no problem with losers: we all lose sooner or later, however I hate people who have no elegance in their loss ... you have mentioned those things in different threads... so you are actually so hysterical that you cannot remember? Would it bring anything to anyone if I would do a mega multiquote of all those replies? You are taking these duly noted remarks very seriously? A clear case of "op de pik getrapt" as the "ignorant" würstli would say.... I'll just start by ignoring you, better for the forum in general ....
 
Alfanauts said:
I have no problem with losers: we all lose sooner or later, however I hate people who have no elegance in their loss ... you have mentioned those things in different threads... so you are actually so hysterical that you cannot remember? Would it bring anything to anyone if I would do a mega multiquote of all those replies? You are taking these duly noted remarks very seriously? A clear case of "op de pik getrapt" as the "ignorant" würstli would say.... I'll just start by ignoring you, better for the forum in general ....
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yes better to just ignore that arragant twat @friendcostomer
 
Alfanauts said:
I have no problem with losers: we all lose sooner or later, however I hate people who have no elegance in their loss ... you have mentioned those things in different threads... so you are actually so hysterical that you cannot remember? Would it bring anything to anyone if I would do a mega multiquote of all those replies? You are taking these duly noted remarks very seriously? A clear case of "op de pik getrapt" as the "ignorant" würstli would say.... I'll just start by ignoring you, better for the forum in general ....
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You are already ignoring the facts so it is best to ignore me as well. Wouldn't want you to kill yourself.
 
Alfanauts said:
you DON'T know that there is a link between the execution of details by a tailor and his ability to execute an overall cut;
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FriendCustomer said:
Correct. I don't think there is link. It used to be working button holes , colored lining or tickets pockets that identified bespoke vs RTW for philistines such as yourself. Now that those so called bespoke features are featured in RTW, losers such as yourself and Your butt boy Jacomet focus on other insignificant details like the Milanese and Parisian cran. Plenty of shit tailors do these details. Please see Kevin seah or Louparelli who do a Milanese.
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You are talking about the presence of certain details being identifiers of bespoke, or not. But that's beside the point.
Alfanauts Alfanauts states that the quality of the execution of these details may give an indication of the tailors ability of the overall cut.
Seems plausible to me. The other way around maybe not. I've seen examples of well cut garments with sloppy detailing.
 
ElioDA said:
You are talking about the presence of certain details being identifiers of bespoke, or not. But that's beside the point.
Alfanauts Alfanauts states that the quality of the execution of these details may give an indication of the tailors ability of the overall cut.
Seems plausible to me. The other way around maybe not. I've seen examples of well cut garments with sloppy detailing.
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My point is that a well done Milanese tells nothing about the quality or cut of the clothes. And those that focus on it are no different than geeks who like colored lining or working button holes.
 
ElioDA said:
You are talking about the presence of certain details being identifiers of bespoke, or not. But that's beside the point.
Alfanauts Alfanauts states that the quality of the execution of these details may give an indication of the tailors ability of the overall cut.
Seems plausible to me. The other way around maybe not. I've seen examples of well cut garments with sloppy detailing.
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Also the Milanese is often given to out workers to do. Where such a button hole is the norm it is available in mtm, semi industrial bespoke and low quality bespoke as well as high bespoke. Therefore it is no indicator of quality.
 
ElioDA said:
You are talking about the presence of certain details being identifiers of bespoke, or not. But that's beside the point.
Alfanauts Alfanauts states that the quality of the execution of these details may give an indication of the tailors ability of the overall cut.
Seems plausible to me. The other way around maybe not. I've seen examples of well cut garments with sloppy detailing.
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Fine details like buttonholes and edge stitching just indicate that the tailor or tailoring house has at least one specialist who deals with this more or less exclusively. It says nothing about the cut and fit of the garment itself, since the construction is a separate part. The tailor can be obsessed with said details but might just as well be incapable of assessing a figure.
 
Strikes me as the "all Sikhs are Singhs but not all Singhs are Sikhs" arguement.

While indeed attention to detail may suggest the attention to workmanship throughout the whole garment, we have all seen examples of poorly executed garments from even the most respected houses and tailors. The fit is shit but i am sure the slots are fabulous.
 
Alfanauts said:
I shall ignore that SNEER! As I was on the verge of making you a compliment! I will however twist that compliment now a little bit as sneers are UNELEGANT, and I was not talking about leaving, just that I understood why SARTO left. Now, here is that compliment: although Scherensammler (and I really hate "Sammler" in general, hoarding is an empty activity for people with no talent suffering from depression!) has done his best to post a thread with patterns and clear explanations on how they affect the fit, no-one has the INTELLIGENCE TO PIECE IT TOGETHER! IT IS LIKE PLAYING CLASSICAL MUSIC! It is not because you have learned how to play that you can be a good interpreter of a piece ... An UNTAILOR is like a PIANIST HAMMERING LISZT! He does not see the big picture, he does not see the masonic gnosis in Bach, nor does he see the strong links to that in Liszt. That type of tailor, who made the jacket of Robertito, does not understand, he works with patterns like a housewife making a dress with BURDA PATTERNS!!! This is why systems destroyed the knowledge in part. Before the "systems" the measurements would be followed by an intermediate step, the creation of the "toile" and the adjustment of that "toile" and that would be put on a table and from there a first pattern would be cut. The pattern would be derived from the customer and not from the system. The current use of systems is limiting and will allow UNTAILORING much more easily. So all these UNTAILORED jackets and suits are the consequence of a tailor following a system and then, like a brainless hen, trying to adapt the standard pattern to a non-standard customer. This is why people like Kiton shit on bespoke! And they are right! Because this type of bespoke without holistic vision is of lesser quality than good RTW or MTO!
Click to expand...

Sarto left because he was too lazy and inept to purge his Nazi, rascist and homophobic posts here and others would not do it for him. He wanted to appear clean to his potential customers. Revisionist history is an unsavoury thing.
 
Thruth said:
Sarto left because he was too lazy and inept to purge his Nazi, rascist and homophobic posts here and others would not do it for him. He wanted to appear clean to his potential customers. Revisionist history is an unsavoury thing.
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Happens when you want to sell things trough a forum and you get caught by your persona.... Let's not talk about revisionist history on a forum allowing positive postings of Leon Degrelle.....
 
Alfanauts said:
Happens when you want to sell things trough a forum and you get caught by your persona.... Let's not talk about revisionist history on a forum allowing positive postings of Leon Degrelle.....
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I don't think that people in this forum knew who Degrelle was until Sarto mentioned on a post. You probably knew him because he was a Walloon.
 
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