The Firearms & Sport Shooting Thread

OfficePants

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Glock were the first to popularize and really mass produce polymer framed pistols (though HK were doing it years earlier in the VP70).

10mm is expensive to purchase because it is rather exotic and the recoil is difficult for many less experienced shooters to handle. It was an experimental round designed for the FBI and ultimately abandoned by them due to excessive recoil. Most law enforcement agencies are using 9mm or .40, with a few opting for the high velocity .357Sig.
I see. So if I opted for .40, what Glock should I use?
 

Dropbear

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I see. So if I opted for .40, what Glock should I use?
I believe that is the G22. It's been around a while now, so you see some good deals on Police trade-ins. I'm not really a Glock Guy, so I don't know how significant the various generational changes in the model really are.

I would advise looking for one with tritium night sights, if possible. Many people like to get an accessory rail on their home defence handgun to mount a light.
 

OfficePants

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I believe that is the G22. It's been around a while now, so you see some good deals on Police trade-ins. I'm not really a Glock Guy, so I don't know how significant the various generational changes in the model really are.

I would advise looking for one with tritium night sights, if possible. Many people like to get an accessory rail on their home defence handgun to mount a light.
Yeah, I saw those laser lights. That would spook any intruder before needing to fire.

Is there any other brand I should seriously consider?
 

Dropbear

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Forget the laser, I was referring to flashlights - very popular, though there are drawbacks.

Glocks are good. Most firearms manufacturers carry a full-size polymer .40 duty pistol - a lot comes down to personal preference and how it feels to you.

My personal preference would be a CZ75B in .40. But that's just me. I like the smooth trigger, DA-SA over striker-fired mechanism and a heavy steel frame.
 

Leitmotif

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Dropbear, how about the Springfield Armoury XD? I have used several times and the trigger its damn good. I love shooting that thing.
 

Dropbear

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Dropbear, how about the Springfield Armoury XD? I have used several times and the trigger its damn good. I love shooting that thing.
Croatia has a solid arms industry. The XD is nice - very robust, a good striker-fired trigger, good sights and a better grip angle. I would choose one over a Glock in most cases.
 

Jan Libourel

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Glock were the first to popularize and really mass produce polymer framed pistols (though HK were doing it years earlier in the VP70).

10mm is expensive to purchase because it is rather exotic and the recoil is difficult for many less experienced shooters to handle. It was an experimental round designed for the FBI and ultimately abandoned by them due to excessive recoil. Most law enforcement agencies are using 9mm or .40, with a few opting for the high velocity .357Sig.
The 10mm cartridge was not designed for the FBI. It was originally designed by one Whit Collins, a long-ago Senior Staff Editor of Guns & Ammo. It used cut down .30 Remington brass and .38-40 jacketed bullets. John French, a precocious young gunsmith, converted a Browning Hi-Power to handle the wildcat. It was meant to combine the virtues of the 9mmP and the .45 ACP. It was originally called the .40 G&A. This was back in the very early 1970s.

Some years later two entrepreneurs, Tom Dornaus and Mike Dixon, were trying to design an improved auto pistol based on the CZ-75 design. Their original intent was to make it a .45 ACP. Jeff Cooper got into the act and suggested they chamber their design for the .40 G&A and call it the "Bren Ten." Dornaus and Dixon were able to persuade Norma to load ammo, and the cartridge became known as the 10mm (although it is really a true .40 and not a 10mm). I am not sure how close the dimensions of the final cartridge made by Norma approximate those of the original wildcat .40 G&A. Far from "splitting the difference" between the 9mm and the .45, the original Norma loads were very powerful, reportedly driving a 200-grain bullet at 1,200 fps. However, some Norma ammo I chronographed not too long after the introduction of the cartridge was a good deal milder--200/1000, which is still pretty potent.

Dornaus & Dixon soon folded because of manufacturing and supplier problems. However, Colt gave the 10mm new life by chambering a version of the Government Model dubbed the "Delta Elite" for it. Around the same time, the FBI, dissatisfied with the 9mm after its supposed failure in the Great Miami Shootout, decided to go with the 10mm. As best I recall, the plan was to use a milder loading in their service pistols and a hotter loading in submachine guns, presumably MP-5s. Smith & Wesson made their large (.45-size) DA autos in this caliber for the FBI.

I think what killed the 10mm with the FBI was not the issue of recoil and control since the service load was pretty mild, especially in those big pistols but the introduction of the .40 S&W in January, 1990. This yielded identical ballistics to the light loadings of the 10mm and could be used in lighter, more size-efficient pistols than the somewhat ponderous 10mm's the FBI had adopted.
 

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Canada's next-generation military smart gun unveiled

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MILITARY
Canada's next-generation military smart gun unveiled
By Colin Jeffrey

February 15, 2015

12 Comments

A new smart weapon being developed for the Canadian Armed Forces bristles with technology (Photo: Jocelyn Tessier, DRDC)


Looking every bit like a weapon from a science fiction movie, the latest integrated assault rifle prototype being developed for the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) is packed with some very smart weapons technology. Along with the ability to fire new lightweight telescoped ammunition, and a secondary effects module that adds either a three-round 40 mm grenade launcher or a 12-gauge shotgun, there is also a NATO-standard power and data bus to allow the attachment of smart accessories, such as electro-optical sights and position sensors that connect to command and control networks.

In development since 2009 via the Soldier Integrated Precision Effects Systems (SIPES) project, the futuristic assault rifle is being specifically developed for the CAF by Defence Research and Development Canada (DRDC) and Colt Canada. With a goal of providing a high-powered, but lightweight standard military rifle for the CAF for the next several decades, reducing weight was paramount. In this vein, when all of the components are finally pared down to their field-ready weights, it is expected that the fully-integrated prototype should weigh in at less than a CAF standard issue Colt C7 equipped with an M203 grenade launcher.

This weight reduction posed a particular challenge to researchers in the evolution of the prototype as replacements for heavy steel components were sought, fabricated, and developed. DRDC scientists in the Experimental Test Center in Valcartier, Quebec, looked for weight savings in all areas, including extensively testing and evaluating the new lightweight case telescoped ammunition (caseless rounds where the projectile is partly or completely enveloped by the propellant), especially in regard to its long-term stability and aging behavior.

Researchers also undertook studies on technology that allows the weapon to automatically procure and engage targets, along with developing sensors required to accurately locate targets spatially and share that target data with surrounding units and back to base. The next step in the research is to incorporate TrackingPoint-style projectile guidance technology.

"In the medium term, this weapon concept represents a lethal, flexible general-purpose platform," said Lieutenant-Colonel Serge Lapointe, from the Soldier Systems group in Director Land Requirements – Soldier Systems (DLR 5) of the Canadian Army. "It will be able to operate in all theaters of operations in the most complex terrain including urban areas, mountains, jungles, deserts and the Arctic."

Ergonomics were also an important factor in the weapon's development, with particular attention paid to how the soldiers interact with the weapon during a range of human factor trials performed by Human Systems Inc., under the supervision of DRDC scientists. This testing was considered paramount to meeting design criteria intrinsic to the Canadian Armed Forces Small Arms Modernization project.

Additional data was also acquired by both DRDC and CAF personnel whilst deployed in Afghanistan, which was invaluable in highlighting and defining critical performance and design elements that added greatly to the weapon's prototype development.

"The results of the first phase of the project have shown that DRDC expertise can be used to provide the Canadian Armed Forces with solid scientific data so they can make more informed decisions for their major acquisition projects," said Dr. Guy Vézina, the Director General for S&T Army, DRDC.

From a firepower viewpoint, the main weapon comprises a NATO standard "bullpup" style (magazine behind, rather than conventionally in front of the trigger mechanism) 5.56 mm NATO-standard caliber, semi-automatic rifle with selectable fire rate, whilst the secondary – additional – weaponry includes a 12-gauge (18mm) shotgun, and a 40-mm, three round capacity grenade launcher.

With the integration of electronic devices that will provide soldiers with the ability to transmit and receive data to and from a command and control network, the new assault rifle prototype promises to provide a much more informed and tactically adept experience for legions of future soldiers.

No announcement has been made as to the weapon's full release to the CAF or other armed forces.

The short video below details some of the many features of the new weapon.

 

Dropbear

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Pics later. I recently bought a P239 in .357Sig to keep locked in my vehicle console. Also got a 7.62x54R Vepr as the base for a 'Vepranov' build-up.
 

Dropbear

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You could buy an entry-level shooter or buy the frame now and slowly collect parts for a custom race gun. I'm more of a HP guy, but I know there is a massive range of 1911 options out there for every budget.
 

Leitmotif

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You could buy an entry-level shooter or buy the frame now and slowly collect parts for a custom race gun. I'm more of a HP guy, but I know there is a massive range of 1911 options out there for every budget.
Isn't the difference only the caliber? Serious question.I guess I could do that, but I don't know much about that stuff.
 

Dropbear

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Isn't the difference only the caliber? Serious question.I guess I could do that, but I don't know much about that stuff.
Same designer, very different firearms.

Spend up to $500 on a nice used 1911 and blast away for a while. You'll get your money back on resale if you get the itch for a fancy name-brand designer version later. Or you might decide you don't like it that much. Then you can get a CZ75, a Makarov, Beretta 92 or a Hi Power.

Unless you really want an old school GI look, then extended bevertail and some Novak-style sights are a worthwhile modern addition.
 

Jan Libourel

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For a guy who wants a good, no-BS 1911 at reasonable cost, I think the Springfield Armory Mil-Spec has everything you need without any extraneous nonsense. I could say much the same of the Colt 1991A1. I prefer the blued to the stainless versions, although looking at Springfield's website, I'm not sure they still offer the Mil-Spec in blue.
 

Leitmotif

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For a guy who wants a good, no-BS 1911 at reasonable cost, I think the Springfield Armory Mil-Spec has everything you need without any extraneous nonsense. I could say much the same of the Colt 1991A1. I prefer the blued to the stainless versions, although looking at Springfield's website, I'm not sure they still offer the Mil-Spec in blue.
Ohhhhh that's beautiful. Thank you!
 

Dropbear

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I was going to recommend one of the Philipino 1911s, but it looks like the SA isn't much more - and a definite step up in finish and quality. Jan knows more about 1911s than anyone else you're likely find willing to advise you, btw.

My personal aesthetic preference on almost all my firearms is obviously grey parkerized metal and wood stocks, though some of the new baked finishes do have impressive properties.
 

Jan Libourel

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^I have a hunch that most of the 1911A1's in inventory are probably pretty doggy. The fact that our 1911A1's in military inventory were in such sorry shape by the 1980s was a major impetus for the project that resulted in the adoption of the Beretta M9. During the trials to select a replacement for the 1911A1, Colt made a bid to re-barrel and otherwise convert the existing stock of 1911A1s to 9mmP along with refinishing them, but the government passed on the deal.

Not too long ago, the government of South Korea wanted to sell a large quantity of 1911A1's and a larger number of M1 Carbines as surplus to the U.S. commercial market. As I recall, the numbers were 300 and 600 thousand, respectively. However, this was blocked by the Obama administration. If the guns were in poor shape, as I suspect most were, perhaps this is not as much a loss to the American shooting public as it might otherwise have been.

As a postscript to my previous post about more economical 1911's, the Ruger SR-1911 might be another option to consider. Unlike my foregoing recommendations, I have no experience with this piece. I believe I was out of the business by the time of its introduction, and in any event I don't believe I could have received a sample for evaluation thanks to the demented, oppressive anti-gun laws regnant here in California. However, I have heard good things from men who have test-fired this pistol.

I wonder if our esteemed board host is aware that the modifications that turned the original M1911 service pistol of WWI into the 1911A1 of WWII, Korea and Vietnam were devised by a man named Rambo.
 

Dropbear

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My shooting mate has an Argentine Sistema 1911, while my dad has a 1943 GI 1911 (blued and devalued post-war). I wonder how an influx of cheap crappy GI pistols will affect the market. A little like those first commercial SKSs in the 1980s or the ongoing trickle of M1s that the CMP were selling more recently?

In other news, my Vepr54 'Vepranov' SVD-style rifle is nearly done - the custom stock from Ironwood Designs is en route! Scope mount and stock are more southpaw friendly than a true SVD, as well.
 
M

Mauro

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Leitmotif Leitmotif , is that you in your avatar? I am a competitive 3 gun and USPA participant. When the weather changes I want to start IDPA. Are you into competitive shooting or IDPA?
 

Leitmotif

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Leitmotif Leitmotif , is that you in your avatar? I am a competitive 3 gun and USPA participant. When the weather changes I want to start IDPA. Are you into competitive shooting or IDPA?
Yeah that's me. Well I'm in buttfuck Orlando.I'm miserable and a pussy also. I just do it for fun, but IDPA does sound interesting. The thing is that most of the course that I have found in the area I live are more about 'learn how to shoot,' than anything else. I haven't found anything around that teaches what I want to learn, which is something more along a military training. I tried Magpul, but it was too much fucking money, 5K or something crazy for a weekend.
 

doghouse

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Yeah that's me. Well I'm in buttfuck Orlando.I'm miserable and a pussy also. I just do it for fun, but IDPA does sound interesting. The thing is that most of the course that I have found in the area I live are more about 'learn how to shoot,' than anything else. I haven't found anything around that teaches what I want to learn, which is something more along a military training. I tried Magpul, but it was too much fucking money, 5K or something crazy for a weekend.
Come on up to Virginia, we got all sorts of those training camps. Can even head over to the infamous Blackwater/Xe/Academi camp.
 

Leitmotif

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Depends on what you are looking for. Between 500- 1K for most shooting courses I think.
Thats somethig that i can definetely do. Again im looking for something more focused into military training, shooting under stressful situations, after running for a mile, and so forth,
 
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