Adventures in Bespoke Tailoring

The Shooman

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I like that this guy knows what he wants in clothes. Goes for a classic cut and wants fuller sleeves. Good video for the first 4 minutes l watched of it. I know some people don't like him, but l think he is a good fella, and extra points for calling igents out and being fools....he talks to them like little kids.

Great tailor too, such a clean cut and good fit on neck. Makes a nice change.

Love full sleeves too. Sleeves are made too narrow these days and they look awful on coats. My new coat has full cut sleeves.
 
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doghouse

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That's not a bad piece. I haven't been the biggest fan of Lagrange over the years, but I have to admit he has been good for the Row, unlike the other interlopers.

I actually was invited to that 2015 event at the UK Embassy here, but had a conflict and couldn't attend.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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That's not a bad piece. I haven't been the biggest fan of Lagrange over the years, but I have to admit he has been good for the Row, unlike the other interlopers.

I actually was invited to that 2015 event at the UK Embassy here, but had a conflict and couldn't attend.

What was done with Gieves & Hawkes on the Row is pretty saddening.

If I had the spare cash, I would be a Huntsman bespoke client.
 

The Shooman

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Look what l found.

ANTHONY BOURDAIN's Personal Custom made Bespoke Suit seen in RAW CRAFT Series
 

Kingstonian

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‘Dishy Rishi’ - the media and Britain’s Chancellor of the Exchequer :-


Collar and tie plus hoodie is a new one.

His tailor charges £1250 so not in Crompton territory.

The promotion mirrors that of Gordon Brown - the prudent Scot unfairly denied his turn in the top job. Then Brown sold off Britain’s gold reserves when prices were at their lowest and also destroyed the pension funds. Brown was not noted for his wardrobe though
 

fxh

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Not a good day tomorrow for fun things. Too hot and wet. What type of umbrella do you have, something manly?

I might have to visit Sebastien soon.
37EDB124-0101-4ED8-B2CA-6F45FCF8AEFA.jpeg
 

fxh

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fxh fxh Did you take that photo? They are good blokes. I should see them more often. They are very old school.
Yeah that was when I called in the other week and had a chat. I’d been a a long boozy lunch at RACV Club - 12.30 til 3.30. Then bumped into a bloke and had a few beers. After I left them I was walking up the other side of Bourke when I heard my name being called. A friend was at a footpath table having a drink. So. I got invited to have some more. Luckily I looked kinda respectable in a suit and tie. I then staggered to the train.

I think I already posted what I was wearing that day.
D56A4743-C190-46DE-A233-114A16DB8DD3.jpeg
D82F295A-70B4-4062-AB5F-1D982A375876.jpeg
 

The Shooman

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Yeah that was when I called in the other week and had a chat. I’d been a a long boozy lunch at RACV Club - 12.30 til 3.30. Then bumped into a bloke and had a few beers. After I left them I was walking up the other side of Bourke when I heard my name being called. A friend was at a footpath table having a drink. So. I got invited to have some more. Luckily I looked kinda respectable in a suit and tie. I then staggered to the train.

I think I already posted what I was wearing that day.


Great story, and would have been a really fun day. Every now and then l miss the old days when l could do that.
 

fxh

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Great story, and would have been a really fun day. Every now and then l miss the old days when l could do that.
I could re-skill you with a short course. No fee.

You’ve got my number.

A bloke I just got to know has a house down at The Bay. He knew the corner of Casino Ave and Joyce Street from the old days. I haven’t been to The Bay since Feb 23 or so 2020. The last weekend before first lockdown.
 

The Shooman

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Hugo's girl talks about how bad suits have collar gaps (agreed).

But l see so many big named suits with collar gaps. Look!

Even Hugo gets caught out here. His big named tailor made a suit for him, but look, Hugo gets busted. Collar pulls off side and back of his neck. Ouch.
Collar gap - Cifonelli.jpg

Other big named tailors notorious for collar gaps. The cutter at Huntsman always has collar gaps. Look, ouch!
Collar gap - Huntsman bespoke 1.jpg

Measuring at Huntsman, but still that dreaded collar gap.
Collar gap - Huntsman bespoke 2.jpg

The Huntsman cutter again.
Collar gap - Huntsman bespoke 3.jpg

again:
Collar gap - Huntsman bespoke 4.JPG

George Glasgow was also at that party, and he had a shocking collar gap on his Huntsman suit too.

You get the picture.

Another guy notorious for collar gaps are Huntsman's old mate Richard Anderson.

Richard could fit a bag of marbles at the back of his suits. Look!
Collar gap - Richard Anderson bespoke 1.jpg

Caught Richard.
Collar gap - Richard Anderson bespoke 2.jpg

Richard again.
Collar gap - Richard Anderson bespoke 6.jpg



It just goes to show that big names mean nothing these days. Sometimes they do great suits and other times they don't. Many of the big names don't inspire, yet they still get cult followings because of a glorious past.

Is this the true reality these days? What happened to those great tailors that made suits for those guys in the films during the 30's and 40's....don't those skills exist anymore?
 

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belinmad

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John Kent once re-did a collar for me when he wasn’t happy on how it sat on my shoulders. Took double the time, but said he wasn’t happy one of his customers would go around with a collar gap with his name on it.
 

The Shooman

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I asked my tailor why so many makers have collar gap. He said that most would cut out the collar and attach it straight on, so it is not shaped properly and won't fit the neck.

My tailor spends time shaping the collar before he puts it on, and then he shrinks it using a special technique. He was given the secret many years ago, and experimented with it and perfected the perfect fitting collar that doesn't come off the back of the neck.

Many of the traditional makers use the old ways of cutting and fitting so they are not aware of the new ways of making collars fit. Many rtw makers including asian made clothes actually make better fitted collars than the bespoke counterparts, they use new ways of doing things apparently.

Oxxford could never fit collars, nor could Kiton. They all had the old ways of doing things. The first thing my tailor did was rip the collars off those suits and put one of his on. Made a difference with how it fitted and looked. No more areas to put a bag of marbles at the back of my neck. Some of the old aussie rtw tailors in the factories were good collar fitters too.

I see so many igents recommending bespoke suits with collar gaps, they all follow the herd and don't seem to notice these things. Big names baffle brains.
 
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The Shooman

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I got the last bit of Holland & Sherry dark brown corduroy in 22.5 oz and am having trousers made. I saw my fabric...really REALLY heavy. 😍 These trousers will be specially built for braces and will have a high back like Sator's trousers but much higher, but will look different because the fish tail won't be needed. Will also have two forward pleats and be cut for no break with 9.5 inch at the bottom of the trousers. I wanted 12 inch wide trousers but my tailor said NO. The process of shaping and fitting these trousers will be complicated due to my shape, and he will do trial trousers first.

I've also had a conversation with him about ordering in 25 oz corduroy. He also reckons he might be able to get 22 oz tweed for trousers and coats. I could do 22 - 25 oz fabrics 7 months of the year....love the feel, warmth and the comfort.

Just booking marking some eye catching quotes from igent forums:

When I was in Jungmann & Neffe in Vienna I came across some incredible overcoating that felt like it was about 36 Oz weight. It felt like carpeting. I nearly brought some. Now that could have stood up on it is own.

However, 18-20 Oz is still effortlessly lightweight by comparison. It is only just full bodied enough to be called a real cloth. Only just.

Agreed with Sator above. 18 oz tweed trousers feel lightweight to me. If l could get 25 oz i'd be happy. Lightweight cloth doesn't feel like real cloth.

I am beginning to think of 16 Oz worsted as subtropical summer weighted cloth these days. I wore my three piece 16 Oz H Lesser lounge suit the other day in 36 C heat. I really didn't notice any difference compared with 9 Oz fresco.

I just absolutely love the immaculate clean, crispness of 16-24 Oz cloth. I think it is just absolutely amazing. As I say, I hardly notice the difference between 9 Oz fresco and 16 Oz worsted in 36 C. You reach a point where the cloth shields you from the heat. It makes me think these lighter "summer" weights/weaves are just a gimmick. Michael Alden loves to joke about the people who think a heavier cloth will cause something like a thermonuclear melt down. Usually, such people have never worn a coat of 20 Oz cloth in their life, but just know it will happen anyway. They are usually amazed how comfortable and effortless such cloth is.

I should also say I have always been highly sensitive to heat. I can't stand saunas. I hate sitting on the beach. I enjoy the local winters. That's why I wear heavier weights in the summer heat - for the same reason the sheep in the Aussie outback wear their coats in the heat. Insulation works both ways: to keep out the cold and to keep out the heat.

With that I will once more heap praise on the glories of the P&B Universal books from Harrisons. They are superb, absolutely superb. Forget the rest and get the best.

BTW It's hard to exhibit Raynaud's phenomenon when it's constantly 30 C/ 86 F. The usual recommendation is to wear gloves, not to wear 22 Oz clothes.

 

The Shooman

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A bookmarked link from a big trouser daddy:
 

The Shooman

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Having some dark brown corduroy trousers made and waiting on dark brown tweed for some heavy winter trousers to wear with thick shawl cardigans. Hopefully a 22 oz tweed.

After that I will be seeking a nice brown guncheck pattern for my next sportscoat in a 11oz Spring/Autumn fabric to pair with 12 oz dark brown worsted trousers.

But my really big treat will be guncheck tweed sportscoats in a heavy tweed fabric. They will be next year.
 
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The Shooman

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22oz? How cold does it get where you live? I thought you were in Australia?

In some parts of Oz it does get cold. Remember, the south of Oz is only 5,000 km from the South Pole where it gets -100 degrees below. Much of Oz is sunny and hot, and some of Oz is hot all the time and tropical, but not where l live. Oz is a big place.

I have a fire on tonight with 18 oz tweed trousers and a thick 3 ply cashmere skivvy. Might even pop on a 6 ply cardigan later.

If l could get 25 oz tweed for trousers i'd grab it.

This year is the year of the dark brown trousers. 3 pairs are set to be made up before the end of year....one in corduroy, one in tweed and the other a normal worsted wool.
 
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Pimpernel Smith

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Does anyone have any plans for any summer tailoring?

If so, what?
I was going to give this outfit in Amsterdam a try and get a summer jacket, nothing specific in mind regards cloth or style, by bespoke I assume it will be MTM:


There's no real bespoke options here, except for shirts.

But then again, not excited by what's posted on their website.
In some parts of Oz it does get cold. Remember, the south of Oz is only 5,000 km from the South Pole where it gets -100 degrees below. Much of Oz is sunny and hot, and some of Oz is hot all the time and tropical, but not where l live. Oz is a big place.

I have a fire on tonight with 18 oz tweed trousers and a thick 3 ply cashmere skivvy. Might even pop on a 6 ply cardigan later.

If l could get 25 oz tweed for trousers i'd grab it.

This year is the year of the dark brown trousers. 3 pairs are set to be made up before the end of year....one in corduroy, one in tweed and the other a normal worsted wool.
You also get conditioned to large drops in temperature. In Rio it would get down to 17C for a couple of weeks at night and 22-25C in the day and everyone was walking around in woolly hats, thick jumpers and leather jackets complaining about how cold it was.
 
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doghouse

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Does anyone have any plans for any summer tailoring?

If so, what?

A fucking lot to make up for lost time. But who knows if I can get to my tailor or they can get to me.

I actually have last summer's order sitting with them right now. Pink linen jacket, and couple pairs of cream trousers.

Plus a length of the Fox Mr. Slowboy fabric to be made up.
 

Otto

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A couple of those pics seem misleading. Collar gap often happens when you're moving around, raising your arms, or sitting down. Doesn't mean you have a bad fit.
 

The Shooman

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A couple of those pics seem misleading. Collar gap often happens when you're moving around, raising your arms, or sitting down. Doesn't mean you have a bad fit.

That doesn't happen with everyone's coat. With my Australian tailor the coat is designed to sit securely on the shoulders and top part of the body, and the collar is shaped and shrunk specially to avoid collar gap. On the weekend l was out and about all day, sitting and standing. I gave a speech waving my arms about and my collar did not leave my neck all day. How do l know? I looked at the photos that were taken that day by the media.

Some tailors have mastered the art of reducing the collar gap while others haven't. Many of the old highend brand named suits haven't done it because they don't shrink and pre-shape collars (just my understanding) where-as a number of the cheap asian rtw and vintage aussie rtw use different techniques and have fixed the collar gap problem.

When it comes to collar gap, it is absolutely inexcusable for it to pull off the side of the neck like Hugo's. A proper fitted collar won't do that. A man can try and try to get it to pull off the neck like that, but it never will.

People have come to accept collar gap as the norm, but it doesn't have to be like that. For many years l refused to buy most coats or suits because they had a collar gap, so l never owned many coats because l was too fussy. Collar gap looks really bad and ruins a good suit, but l still appreciate the other parts of the suit that is made well, but l would never buy such a suit. Once your eye is trained to see collar gap you can never unsee it.
 
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The Shooman

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Other famous makers with collar gap.

Rubinacci

The older man always has collar gaps where-as the son doesn't seem too. Looks like they can't get the collar to fit well on the dad's figure. You could fit a bag of marbles in the back of his collar. It also pulls off at about 2 o'clock (not a good sign).

I am shaped like My Rubinacci at the back of the neck, and no collar should fit me, but it just means extra shrinking and shaping the collar to make it fit. My tailor shrinks my collars 3 inches (I think).
Collar gap - Rubinacci 1.jpg
Collar gap - Rubinacci 2.jpg

A Savile Row suit. Don't know the maker.

Collar gap, l could slide marbles down the back of his suit there.
Collar gap - savile row 1.jpg

and worst of all, the collar starts to pull sidewards off his neck. No shape to the collar at all. Might have been attached flat to the suit without any pre-shaping. Ciffonelli seems to do the same thing, but no way near as bad.
Collar gap - savile row 2.jpg

I still enjoy the nice suits, but those things take away from the fit and appearance.
 
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Otto

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Makes me kind of black pilled on this issue, tbh. I can only afford rtw, and I think I've done a reasonable job getting coats with minimal collar gap (which is annoying and something you can't unsee, once seen, as you said), but if even the big names are incapable of getting rid of it, where does that leave us?
 

The Shooman

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Makes me kind of black pilled on this issue, tbh. I can only afford rtw, and I think I've done a reasonable job getting coats with minimal collar gap (which is annoying and something you can't unsee, once seen, as you said), but if even the big names are incapable of getting rid of it, where does that leave us?

Where does that leave us? Obviously tailors should learn from those rtw companies and tailors that have solved the collar gap problem. Many tailors seem to be stuck in the old ways and don't want to change their ideas, so they don't look for solutions IMO.

Sonya talks about collar gaps here. She thinks the same way l have for the last 17 years. Once you see it you will never go there again.

A collar gap makes a suit look sloppy and unfinished. It needs that tightening up to get that really smart finished look. I think it is more than just the collar, a suit needs to be cut to fit so it is not moving around and shifting to the back of the body.


As l have been told, it is not just about fitting and cutting, it is also measuring and how the suit is made (I suppose that could mean shaping the suit and making to the clients body, and the materials used, and how they are used).
 
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Pimpernel Smith

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Makes me kind of black pilled on this issue, tbh. I can only afford rtw, and I think I've done a reasonable job getting coats with minimal collar gap (which is annoying and something you can't unsee, once seen, as you said), but if even the big names are incapable of getting rid of it, where does that leave us?
I think block and body build come into it. I don't have any issue with collar gap and I'm only buying RTW at the moment.

Unlike this chap:

AP771102705823.jpg
 
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Dropbear

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Where does that leave us? Obviously tailors should learn from those rtw companies and tailors that have solved the collar gap problem. Many tailors seem to be stuck in the old ways and don't want to change their ideas, so they don't look for solutions IMO.

Sonya talks about collar gaps here. She thinks the same way l have for the last 17 years. Once you see it you will never go there again.

A collar gap makes a suit look sloppy and unfinished. It needs that tightening up to get that really smart finished look. I think it is more than just the collar, a suit needs to be cut to fit so it is not moving around and shifting to the back of the body.


As l have been told, it is not just about fitting and cutting, it is also measuring and how the suit is made (I suppose that could mean shaping the suit and making to the clients body, and the materials used, and how they are used).

the video thumbnail is a Spier and McKay Chinese RTW, but I didn’t hear the lesbian in the video mentioning any particular brands when I skimmed through it.
 

aristoi bcn

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Never had collar gap not even with bad RTW pieces. I think some bodies and postures are more likely to suffer from collar gap.
 

Lumpen

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Sarto let me took this pics before shipping to good taste client.

Garza green

Pattern wool navy yets needs final pressing ( note the narrow blade has not yet the shape)


tie 3.jpeg
tie 2.jpeg
tie 1.jpeg


Garza printed brown, particulary this fabric is very special and hard to get
 

Lumpen

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Other famous makers with collar gap.

Rubinacci

The older man always has collar gaps where-as the son doesn't seem too. Looks like they can't get the collar to fit well on the dad's figure. You could fit a bag of marbles in the back of his collar. It also pulls off at about 2 o'clock (not a good sign).

I am shaped like My Rubinacci at the back of the neck, and no collar should fit me, but it just means extra shrinking and shaping the collar to make it fit. My tailor shrinks my collars 3 inches (I think).
View attachment 36855
View attachment 36856

A Savile Row suit. Don't know the maker.

Collar gap, l could slide marbles down the back of his suit there.
View attachment 36857

and worst of all, the collar starts to pull sidewards off his neck. No shape to the collar at all. Might have been attached flat to the suit without any pre-shaping. Ciffonelli seems to do the same thing, but no way near as bad.
View attachment 36858

I still enjoy the nice suits, but those things take away from the fit and appearance.


For some people figures as this interrogation shape bodies ? , it needs to streetch and add some cms. on the back to accomodate the humped like neck.

Is basic on tailoring Sarto says.

The most difficult shapes are not bodys as Alfred Hitchcock, but people with ? like shake bodies. since are humped, walk as a hawk with the head way advanced and also their vertebral column at the stomach height is advanced a lot, so tons of curves on the body.
 
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