Domestic & International Terrorism

Pimpernel Smith

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some truly disturbing shit

The teachers in the suburbs, not only Paris, have been getting harassed, followed and threatened for quite some time. This is not an isolated insistent, only in the end result. Another new normal I suspect, ever we inch.

The future of the French cities is rather bleak. Beirut 1970s spring to mind.

 
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Kingstonian

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The teachers in the suburbs, not only Paris, have been getting harassed, followed and threatened for quite some time. This is not an isolated insistent, only in the end result. Another new normal I suspect, ever we inch.

The future of the French cities is rather bleak. Beirut 1970s spring to mind.

Raspail’s ‘Camp of the Saints’ comes to pass.
 

formby002

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Spot on...
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Pimpernel Smith

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Raspail’s ‘Camp of the Saints’ comes to pass.

There's many commentators and mainstream ones in France who consider a descent into an Algerian style civil war with tit-for-tat killings and executions. With the state of the banlieues it could well end up Beirut 1970s style. And not only France the no-go enclaves are in many European cities and towns. There are ISIS and jihad cells operating in every major western European city.

When you've got the ex-PM of Malaysia saying that Muslims have a right to kill millions of French, we need to accept that we should have been ruthless in managing this spoilt, chip on the shoulder delinquents back at the time of the Satanic Verses: grow-up or piss-off back to the Dark Ages. Absolute zero tolerance.
 

Rambo

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whats the general vibe in europe over these latest killings in france? its barely getting news play at all here because of the election.
 

Kingstonian

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whats the general vibe in europe over these latest killings in france? its barely getting news play at all here because of the election.
It’s barely getting news play here either.

That’s because it suits the establishment to downplay it.

When some illegals drowned in the Channel (near the French coast!!) the BBC was full of sob stories.

When illegals arrive in Kent it is rarely mentioned unless Nigel Farage forces it into the headlines.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Greek orthodox priest shot in stomach in Lyon, this latest attack is no cause for alarm, something to do with Islamophobia methinks:


In the Spectator:

On Thursday morning, I visited the cathedral at Reims. The central door on the north side is dedicated to Saint Nicasius, who founded the first cathedral on the site and who, in 407 AD, was decapitated by the Vandals. It struck me as odd that a burly security guard was checking visitors' bags, but shortly after leaving the cathedral I learned of what had unfolded at the Notre Dame Basilica in Nice.

Barbarity is nothing new to France but what is so troubling about the wave of bloody violence that has swept the country in the last decade is the impotence of the rulers. Emmanuel Macron flew to Nice and made an all-too familiar presidential declaration about France 'not giving in to terror'. He offered the same passive platitudes a fortnight ago, hours after a schoolteacher had been beheaded in a quiet suburban street for showing a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed in the classroom.

As if to underline the emptiness of the president's words, scores of demonstrators took to the streets of Dijon on Thursday night to make known their anger. They ignored the government's coronavirus curfew, as they did the rules on social distancing and mask wearing. Such was their fury. But these were not Frenchmen and women sickened at the slaying of three Christians by an Islamic extremist; these were young, pro-Turkish demonstrators – supporters of president Erdogan, who days earlier had accused Macron of Islamophobia and mocked his mental state. There was a similar protest in Lyon on Wednesday evening, when an estimated 200 pro-Turkish protesters paraded through the streets. There were cries of 'Allahu Akbar', as the mob sought to settle scores with Armenians.

Thursday's barbarity was the work of a 21-year-old Tunisian, an illegal immigrant who arrived in France just weeks earlier. Whether he launched his attack of his own accord, or whether he was despatched across the Mediterranean by the Islamic State has yet to be determined.

The man who murdered Samuel Paty, the schoolteacher, was a Chechen. And a young man of Pakistani origin was arrested after two journalists were attacked with meat cleavers in Paris last month. Other Islamist atrocities in France in recent years have been attributed to Algerians and French-Moroccans.

Once the French celebrated diversity – what is known in France as 'Vivre-Ensemble' – but now many fear it. This is the strategy of the Islamists: to sow fear and distrust among the French, so that they turn on each other and the country slides into the civil war so chillingly depicted by Michel Houellebecq in his 2015 novel, Submission. The climax of that novel comes in the lead up to the 2022 presidential election, now just 18 months away.

I've never known France so fearful, and so angry. It was palpable yesterday afternoon in Reims, and I could feel it this morning when I returned to Paris. There is a sullen resentment at the government's mismanagement of coronavirus, which has culminated in a second lockdown that begun today. And there is a raw desperation at their leader's inability to protect them. Furthermore, they ask, why is it that terrorists appear to move around with impunity but the movements of the rest of the country are strictly controlled? Small wonder that a poll on Friday revealed that only one in four of those canvassed have confidence in the present government to defeat the Islamists.

If Macron has – as some in France claim – 'lost control' of coronavirus, he is also losing control of his other 'war' against Islamic extremism. Macron's problem is that he is an intellectual, reared from an early age in the smug surety of Western liberalism. Like other western European leaders, he cannot fathom an ideology that brooks no compromise, that has only one objective: conquest by any means.

To combat such extremism will require him to be ruthless. 'Should we toughen our laws?' asked today's editorial in Le Figaro. 'Without hesitation, if we want to win and retake our destiny in our hands.'

That will mean tightening the country's borders, shutting down the extremists' mosques and doing something about the 8,132 people on the radar of the intelligence services. Many of France's intelligentsia will be outraged at such policies; so be it. Let them wring their hands it if means no more throats are cut.


I've noticed a change in mood in France these last several years. A walk around at rush hour in cities and major towns and you can feel the tension. It has an edge like in certain UK cities and towns, but it doesn't feel like it's an underclass thing, the strained atmosphere feels very much tribal.

All of mainland Western Europe has problems with quasi-religious criminal gangs and drug gangsters from the Islamic world, but in France it seems much more acute and in your face.

This cannot end well, the cultural differences strike me as too sheer and the response from the Islamic world tells us that there is no chance of a compromise or a middle way. As such, France should plan and act accordingly.

And not only France.
 
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QuandoDio

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whats the general vibe in europe over these latest killings in france? its barely getting news play at all here because of the election.

Doesn't get much play here. I suppose like most countries, we are all becoming very insular and dealing with our own problems (US, election/ unrest etc; UK; Covid/ internecine squabbling, economy, BREXIT; Germany: COVID/ economy / Brexit etc).

Sad, really as Macron- who I am no fan of is left to go it alone and deal with the barbarians.
 

fxh

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whats the general vibe in europe over these latest killings in france? its barely getting news play at all here because of the election.
Big Play here on news etc
 

Pimpernel Smith

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Macron exposes the timid response to Islamism from Boris:

 

Pimpernel Smith

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Macron tries, but anyone who has visited France at street level in the major towns and cities knows there is an edge and distinct deterioration in the last decade and a half, as if inviting the Arab street to come and live with you would not have consequences:


France vs Islamism: how does Macron hope to prosecute his war?

France is under attack. Two weeks ago, Samuel Paty, a middle school teacher, was decapitated in a leafy suburb of Paris after showing his students cartoons of the prophet Mohammed published by Charlie Hebdo in 2015. Last week, there were three killings at the Basilica of Notre-Dame in Nice, and after that, an Orthodox priest in Lyon was shot and gravely wounded. ‘Tell my children I love them,’ were the dying words of Simone Barreto Silva, a 44-year-old mother of three and herself an immigrant, killed in Nice.

France has gone to ‘war’ with Islamic ‘separatists’, Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin has claimed. The police have been rounding up the usual suspects, but with 20,000 individuals on the watch lists of the intelligence services, and hundreds of radical mosques breeding more, these are gestures.
Yet if this is a war, the Republic is hardly winning. Darmanin admits there will be further attacks, and is thin on the details of how they will be countered. Michel Houellebecq, in his 2015 novel Submission, predicted that the French establishment is ultimately more likely to collaborate with Islamists than seriously confront them. A French friend reminds me: ‘We’re not very good at winning wars.’

Last month, before the latest spate of violence began, President Emmanuel Macron delivered an exceptionally robust speech against Islamists, provoking furious protests from Muslims and western liberals. After the attacks, he further infuriated many Muslims by specifically reiterating his defence of the freedom to blaspheme.

Macron’s discourse is as politically expedient as it is a reflection of conviction, a swerve to the right as the 2022 presidential campaign approaches. Either way, his words have been exceptionally tough. Using language impossible to imagine being used in today’s Britain, he identified the core problem as ‘Islamic separatism… a politico-religious project… to create an alternative society… whose final goal is to take control’.

With the Revolution, France replaced worship of God with its own holy trinity: liberté, egalité and fraternité
Islam, he declared, is a religion ‘in crisis…plagued by radicalism and by a yearning for a reinvented jihad, the destruction of the “other”’. France shares responsibility, itself a ‘separatist society of ghettos’ concentrating ‘misery and hardship’ where the promise of liberty, equality and fraternity has not been kept.

His analysis is solid, but thin on proposed remedies. It is entirely unclear how Macron intends to prosecute this war. He’s mobilised soldiers to reinforce the police, but this is mere theatre. The army is thinly stretched after six years of inconclusive struggle against Islamists in the Sahel. The home garrison is neither trained nor equipped for policing, nor even considered especially reliable. The police themselves are poorly paid and demoralised. Static defence to mobile terrorism seems in any case tantamount to a Maginot Line deployed against an ideology.

Macron’s ghettos, where the lockdown is ignored, are restless. The cities and villages are on edge. Gun club membership has tripled as many citizens, including women, seek the permits to arm themselves.

France had enough of a problem with its own alienated citizens, not to overlook the Chechens, Tunisians and Syrians who continue to arrive. Thanks to the open borders of Schengen, frontiers hardly exist, thousands of suspected militants circulate almost invisibly, and the latest Nice terrorist arrived by train from Italy, which he’d reached from Tunisia after being picked up by a humanitarian organisation in the Mediterranean.

Some ask how Macron can lock down the country against a virus, yet terrorists seem free to roam at will. A poll last week by Fiducial/Odoxa for Le Figaro revealed 26 per cent of voters have confidence in the government to deal with terrorism. That’s down 7 per cent in a week, and 18 per cent since July.

Éric Ciotti, a senior Républicain party deputy for the Alpes-Maritimes, has demanded a ‘French-style Guantánamo’ to detain people flagged as risks but not convicted of specific crimes. ‘Islamic facism is a virus,’ said Christian Estrosi, mayor of Nice. ‘We have permanent bombs on our territory that could explode at any moment.’

It’s a popular argument, if far-fetched, to imagine France could export its problem to the currently abandoned Devil’s Island, just off the coast of equatorial French Guiana, the notorious Bagne de Cayenne where Alfred Dreyfus was imprisoned and Henri Charrière, a writer and convicted murderer, gathered the material for Papillon.

Article 16 of France’s constitution of the Fifth Republic states that where the institutions of the Republic, the independence of the nation or the integrity of its territory are under serious and immediate threat, the president shall take measures required by these circumstances. This power is sweeping and was last used by General de Gaulle in 1961 during the war in Algeria. But does the current president have the will to match action to his rhetoric?
If a French Guantánamo might theoretically be constitutional, it’s unlikely to be practical. It would provoke an almighty backlash or even an uprising in the unstable cités. There is plenty of potential for such a conflict to spill beyond the borders, not least to the UK, Belgium and Germany. Does Macron have any other ideas?

It is from antecedents such as the murderous anticlericalism of the Revolution itself that the French seem preternaturally attached to secularism (laïcité) including the ironically sacrosanct nature of blasphemy. With the Revolution, which included the widespread killing of priests and nuns, France replaced worship of God with worship of the state, an extreme secularism with its own holy trinity of liberté, egalité and fraternité.
But this idea of secular France, which has squashed the nation’s cultural and religious Catholicism, is also a weakness. It’s incompatible with proselytizing Islam, where the overwhelming majority of believers, even those unlikely to commit violence themselves, cannot accept any justification for insulting their prophet.

That alienated, uneducated, unemployed young men are prepared violently to defy the Republic in defence of their religion is not startling. With an estimated six million Muslims in France, and more arriving all the time, there is a plentiful sup- ply of potential jihadists. Six of the last 20 terror attacks have been committed by recent immigrants.

Reaction in the Muslim world to Macron’s speech and his subsequent elaborations has been predictable. President Erdogan of Turkey pronounced Macron to be a mentally deranged Islamophobe. Mobs took to the streets across the Arab world and the subcontinent. In London, demonstrators chanted ‘Allahu Akbar’ outside the French embassy and even the West End store of a French-owned retailer of expensive handbags.

After 130 rock fans were slaughtered at a Paris music venue, Jewish schoolchildren shot dead at their school in Toulouse, 86 killed in the 2016 Bastille Day attack in Nice, a priest murdered in Normandy and the slaughter of a dozen journalists at Charlie Hebdo, the government insists it’s thwarting plots on a daily basis. But the evidence for these claims is hard to judge.


On Monday, French children returned from their half-term. Schools were told to devote the morning to ‘reinforced’ civics instruction, in homage to Samuel Paty. Yet head teachers warned that in many schools with large numbers of Muslim students the planned lessons would be disrupted. It was feared some pupils would record these on their phones and post the clips on YouTube, embarrassing the President. Cue the predictable U-turn. There would be a minute’s silence and an hour’s lesson, but it was not attempted everywhere. In some of the most sensitive schools, the silence was observed only in staff rooms.

If the French state is scared of high school students, what chance has it got?
 

Rambo

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What's the word on Nashville?
they have a potential suspect and are searching his home. nothing really known about his motives. if he was trying to blow up at&t then he should be lauded as a national hero.
 

Dropbear

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'Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal was formerly the head of Joint Special Operations Command in Iraq and the commander of all U.S. and allied troops fighting the Taliban and al-Qaida in Afghanistan. “I did see a similar dynamic in the evolution of al-Qaida in Iraq, where a whole generation of angry Arab youth with very poor prospects followed a powerful leader who promised to take them back in time to a better place, and he led them to embrace an ideology that justified their violence. This is now happening in America,” McChrystal told Yahoo News.'m

 

Rambo

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'Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal was formerly the head of Joint Special Operations Command in Iraq and the commander of all U.S. and allied troops fighting the Taliban and al-Qaida in Afghanistan. “I did see a similar dynamic in the evolution of al-Qaida in Iraq, where a whole generation of angry Arab youth with very poor prospects followed a powerful leader who promised to take them back in time to a better place, and he led them to embrace an ideology that justified their violence. This is now happening in America,” McChrystal told Yahoo News.'m

Yes stanley this is clearly something that we've only seen once before...
 

Dropbear

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Arnathor

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Lmao, This is the same guy who farts aloud in Congress, threatens Americans with nukes and sleeps with Chinese spies.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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