Domestic & International Terrorism

Pimpernel Smith

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That a "white nationalist" and "fascist" would attack Muslims makes little sense to me. In the first place, Islam is not a "race," it is a religion. The Muslims in places like Bosnia, Kossovo and Albania are as white as any other Europeans. Thousands of them served in the Waffen SS. I mean, if Muslims were good enough for the SS, how can a "white nationalist" be against them? Moreover, no few of the inhabitants of other Muslim lands like Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan are quite "Aryan" in appearance, with blue or green eyes, fair skins, blonde or red hair...and they look Aryan because that's what they are.

Moreover, Hitler, the ultimate fascist, many would say, had cordial relations with the Arab people and other Muslims and enjoyed great popularity among them. I gather the saying went, "In heaven Allah, on earth Hitler."
Adolf Hitler had a lot of respect for Islam and said if they had the modernity of National Socialism behind them they would have conquered the world. There were close ties between the Axis powers and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in the 1930s and during the war. On meeting Hitler in 1941 he exclaimed ''The Arabs were Germany's natural friends because they had the same enemies... namely the English, the Jews, and the Communists''. When I was in Tehran I noticed a book shop had in pride of place Mein Kampf. And why not? Anti-semites are likely to get along together sharing the same hatred.

The one thing this shooter isn't is a white knight defending christendam or whatever. He's a nutter and should be denied the breath of publicity and notoriety. I've not seen the full text of his madness, but what I have points to the usual disjointed pathology of weakness and grandiose ego. One would have thought, with the time he had been planning all of this, his ease in travelling globally and to a number of Islamic countries which he happened to praise, he could have picked a more rational or justifiable target i.e. a radical ISIS sleeper cell, or one of the rape gangs in England and took them out saving an underage minor from sex slavery like in Taxi Driver. As ever with these kind of things, it is the lust for infamy and to declare themselves No.1 in the league table of shooters as the most spectacular this time live streamed. Beat that! And so it continues.....
 

formby

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^
It wasn't an alliance, it was marriage of a convenience like the Molotov - Ribbentrop pact.

'itler would have destroyed the Muslims and siezed their lands after he had destroyed the Jews and consolidated his power.
 

Dropbear

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Modern Nazis see Islam as a greater threat to ‘the West’ than Jews. This started around the time of the Arab-Israeli War and really made headway in the 1990s with Muslim migrant camps in Europe targeted for firebombing.

Even the definition of ‘The West’ has shifted a little. The epicenter is no longer Germany (first West then East), then to Croatia and now the Ukraine, Greece and the US. Aryan is a concept slowly being dropped and the Slavs and Iberians are now welcomed.

There was also a Roehm wing of the movement that started in the 50s that was a bit more populist and blue-collar and that was pro-Soviet. Anti-communism is still a foundation of most fascist groups, but is seen far less in their organizing rhetoric.

This kid’s firearms had a predictable mix of Nazi scribbled on them.
 

formby

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You would hope so anyway.
It always present on the extremes of both the Left and Right, satiated with their conspiracy bullshit.

However it seems to be leaking towards the centre, more so on the Left than the Right. The casual use of anti-Semitic tropes by some decidedly non-fringe members of the Labour party being an example.
 

doghouse

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Really?

What's happening on your college campuses doesn't strike me as the work of the Right.
It's not. Its also roughly .00001% of the country on top of not being a political party.

The modern Republican party is essentially irredeemable and 100% identity politics.
 

doghouse

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I wish I shared this optimism with you.
Eh, I am not sure I'd classify it as optimism. More that I feel most of them aren't actively terrible, which I guess is something.

The only optimism I have is that there are still a good 30% of the populace who are independent.
 

Jan Libourel

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I should have thought modern-day fascists and neo-Nazis would find much to like about al-Islam: the exaltation of masculinity, the disciplined piety, the ferocity, the contempt for death, the idea of redemption through death in battle and more. I think how in the Spanish Civil War, the Muslim Moors were enthusiastic supporters of the Nationalists, and no few of the Nationalist leaders like that strange and remarkable man, Gen. Jose Millan-Astray, were influenced and inspired by those very Muslim ideas of redemptive death. It is worthy of note that at the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War, Hitler and Mussolini helped fly in thousands of African tribesmen to battle against the forces of liberalism, socialism, communism and anarchism.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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It will be the "lone wolf" narrative, forgetting that wolves are always part of a larger pack. Even if they monitor and have 24/7 surveillance on all those linked to terrorist cells, what will they actually do? Intern, strip of nationality and deport to camps on remote islands where they can do no harm. Send the human rights lawyers there if that's what they're into.
Hope that applies for the Utrecht terrorist as well, particularly as he was the local village idiot, living on the dole of the Dutch with an IQ of a shrimp, but managed to get hold of assault rifles and knew exactly how to use them and shoot them to kill. All purchases no doubt on ebay and was self taught, anything else would by a YouTube conspiracy, wot?
 

güero

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You tell me, I was just quoting you? It is very strange all the conspiracy whackos seem to be dead silent about this. My bet is on either Erdogay or Poutine being behind this.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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You tell me, I was just quoting you? It is very strange all the conspiracy whackos seem to be dead silent about this. My bet is on either Erdogay or Poutine being behind this.
The narrative is already set: right wing nut job part of wider conspiracy leading via Youtube/4 Chan through gateway drugs of Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson onto real neo-nazis such as Richard Spencer and finally to the MAGA clansman himself. Look back in anger indeed! Islamic terrorist with machine guns and assault rifles obtained illegally and knew how to use them: lone wolf, the local village idiot, nothing to do with anyone, or any literally interpretation of a religious text, nothing to worry about, no wider organisation at work here. Don't look back in anger queue Oasis song, but lets deplatform, ban guns in the USA, get rid of the Constitution and apply a liberal dose if whataboutary and a possible backlash.

Behind the narrative the facts are in general, the shooters and terrorists who hide behind white and racial nationalism tend to be lone wolves and whilst they may have interaction on extreme right wing forums, they tend to be isolated, loners and misfits without an organized group behind them. And without much of a track record of cirminal acts which make them extremely difficult to be on the radar before the attack. On the contrary, many Islamist terrorists are well on the radar, part of known cells and have criminal records. In the case of the Utrecht shooter he had a rap sheet as long as an arm and was a known thug. As for Erdogan he did stir it up a bit with his evoking of the Gallipoli campaign.
 

güero

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The narrative is already set: right wing nut job part of wider conspiracy leading via Youtube/4 Chan through gateway drugs of Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson onto real neo-nazis such as Richard Spencer and finally to the MAGA clansman himself. Look back in anger indeed! Islamic terrorist with machine guns and assault rifles obtained illegally and knew how to use them: lone wolf, the local village idiot, nothing to do with anyone, or any literally interpretation of a religious text, nothing to worry about, no wider organisation at work here. Don't look back in anger queue Oasis song, but lets deplatform, ban guns in the USA, get rid of the Constitution and apply a liberal dose if whataboutary and a possible backlash.

Behind the narrative the facts are in general, the shooters and terrorists who hide behind white and racial nationalism tend to be lone wolves and whilst they may have interaction on extreme right wing forums, they tend to be isolated, loners and misfits without an organized group behind them. And without much of a track record of cirminal acts which make them extremely difficult to be on the radar before the attack. On the contrary, many Islamist terrorists are well on the radar, part of known cells and have criminal records. In the case of the Utrecht shooter he had a rap sheet as long as an arm and was a known thug. As for Erdogan he did stir it up a bit with his evoking of the Gallipoli campaign.
I don't understand a word. My question was: Why is nobody providing a conspiracy theory for Utrecht? The MSM story doesn't make any sense, there isn't even a coherent one. It would be so easy.
 

güero

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I don't have time for this, to think it through and spell it out in detail. But all the ingredients are there, two days before election, Turkish dude, grey wolves, no motive, the weapon used, etc. Very disappointed the usual conspiracy providers fail me.
 

Pimpernel Smith

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I don't have time for this, to think it through and spell it out in detail. But all the ingredients are there, two days before election, Turkish dude, grey wolves, no motive, the weapon used, etc. Very disappointed the usual conspiracy providers fail me.
There's no real conspiracy here. A likely scenario based on his rap sheet including rape and also the fact he shot the young woman first and then the two men who came to help her: he had her in his sights for sometime and she rejected him and he lusted after her and also likely being a low level drug dealer he could get access to weapons and then the Islamic element buys him status in his community and in jail (as he perceives it).

Unlikely some conspiracy to motivate voters, the Dutch middle class have voted with their feet out of the cities and already have a low opinion of the foreign first and second generation criminal underclass. And they were cute enough to reject Common Purpose when it tried to set up here.
 

Fwiffo

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48070552

I'm head of the nation and because no one told me I don't take responsibility. Someone ought to impose the Japanese philosophy and pass on one of the swords to him.

"Sri Lanka's prime minister has told the BBC he was 'out of the loop' when it came to intelligence warnings ahead of the deadly Easter Sunday bombings.

Ranil Wickremesinghe said that crucial information about any potential danger in the country was not passed to him.

The subsequent attacks, which claimed at least 250 lives, exposed a massive intelligence failure by Sri Lanka.

The country's police chief and top defence ministry official have both resigned over the bombings.

But Mr Wickremesinghe argued the fact that he was unaware of the warnings meant he did not need to step down from his position."
 

Kingstonian

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48070552

I'm head of the nation and because no one told me I don't take responsibility. Someone ought to impose the Japanese philosophy and pass on one of the swords to him.

"Sri Lanka's prime minister has told the BBC he was 'out of the loop' when it came to intelligence warnings ahead of the deadly Easter Sunday bombings.

Ranil Wickremesinghe said that crucial information about any potential danger in the country was not passed to him.

The subsequent attacks, which claimed at least 250 lives, exposed a massive intelligence failure by Sri Lanka.

The country's police chief and top defence ministry official have both resigned over the bombings.

But Mr Wickremesinghe argued the fact that he was unaware of the warnings meant he did not need to step down from his position."
That Prime Minister seems to be very cheerful and he smiles a lot.

Completely inappropriate for the sombre nature of the events that just happened in his country.
 
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